Eikel Posted February 4, 2006 Hey Guys, Thought some of you may be interested in a project that a FOAF had going... He's actually in umm, Holland yes, that's where this is happening. He "spilt" some spores into a jar full of wheatgerm/linseed/soy/almond organic "grain-mix", I think he said he had a little propogation sand and vermiculite in the jar also. The Jar didn't appear to be doing much, and after a week of not seeing anything he figured it was contaminated/dead and only good to be added to the compost. So he poured the jar over a 3" layer of pea-straw covered by a 2" layer of cow-poo. Ontop of the grains he stuck another 2" of cowpoo and some outdoor "sweepings" offa the back patio (mainly straw and dead plant material) ontop of that. He was pleasantly suprised to see mycellial growth appearing at the top of the poo, realising what happened (the wheatgerm WAS colonizing, just too wet) and now the poo was being colonized, he "cased" the container with a 2.5" vermiculite/perlite mix, gave it a good watering, and covered with a large black plastic bag. How long should he leave it like this for? A week? then remove the bag to commence fruiting? With outdoor I'm guessing it would be optimal to remove the bag when tempratures drop after/during a rain? Some pics of the "growth" on top of the cowpoo... Should also mention, ontop of the cow-poo he said were a few bits of wood, underneath these the growth is more "cottony/cobwebby" than "powdery", rhizomorphic growth I told him (guessing), was I right? (Last of the pics is the whole compost "bin" with red circles around the areas where the close-up pics were taken). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eikel Posted February 4, 2006 Should also mention - the guy didn't expect this to work at all, as the title said, it was "accidental"... He was sure it was doomed to failure, primarily because of the following: 1. The spores that were "spilt" into the grains - the syringe had been prepared from the print using h202 for sterilization (yes, he feels stupid about it). 2. He doesn't have a PC, so he "sterilized" the jars by putting them into a pot and boiling/steaming them for about 45minutes each. 3. He had an old print from '04 which he didn't know would work. 4. Grains were innoculated using a "measurement" syringe, no metal point- just a plastic "nozzle". So yeah, haha he's pretty stoked, after doing a bit more reading he's starting to realize how lucky he was/is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hyphal Posted February 5, 2006 Should also mention - the guy didn't expect this to work at all, as the title said, it was "accidental"... He was sure it was doomed to failure, primarily because of the following:1. The spores that were "spilt" into the grains - the syringe had been prepared from the print using h202 for sterilization (yes, he feels stupid about it). 2. He doesn't have a PC, so he "sterilized" the jars by putting them into a pot and boiling/steaming them for about 45minutes each. 3. He had an old print from '04 which he didn't know would work. 4. Grains were innoculated using a "measurement" syringe, no metal point- just a plastic "nozzle". So yeah, haha he's pretty stoked, after doing a bit more reading he's starting to realize how lucky he was/is. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I dont think what your seeing is mycelium - it looks more to me like a contamination of some sort. I think you will be very very lucky if you get any mushrooms popping up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eikel Posted February 6, 2006 I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I dont think what your seeing is mycelium - it looks more to me like a contamination of some sort. I think you will be very very lucky if you get any mushrooms popping up. Ahh well, bummer - I'll just tell him to bury it in his yard if nothing happens within another week or so. Thought it was mycellium for sure, oh well, cest la vie Sok though, he told me he's got prints coming in to try again with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eikel Posted February 11, 2006 I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I dont think what your seeing is mycelium - it looks more to me like a contamination of some sort. I think you will be very very lucky if you get any mushrooms popping up. My friend hadn't done anything with the container - he just let it sit without even watering, nothing appeared to be happening so he decided to use it as a "bed" for some plants he was planting. He dug a big trench and upturned the container,and - thump, a big chunk of white-covered straw and manure came out plop onto the perlite/vermiculute. He doesn't know if it's mycellium, but the straw/manure part of the mix was solid and coated in what is best decribed as "wet marshmallow viscious goop, all white as snow". Unfortunately he was working with someone else at the time, and couldn't stop to take pictures for fear of seeming suspicious. The "trench" now has been sown with grass-seed instead of the original plants, and topped with pre-sterilized seed-raising soil and a bunch more manure (horse this time, not cow). He's gonna just leave it with the occasional watering, if something turns up you can be gauranteed he'll give me some pics to put up for you guys. Anyway, sorry, boring story, but he is now convinced that the mycellium actually WAS growing in the container... I keep telling him he doesn't know what he's doing, but he's a stubborn bastard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted February 11, 2006 have you guys ever read roadkills horse poo tek? it would give you some pointers http://home.iprimus.com.au/reville1/Method...lk/roadkill.htm heres some others too http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/par/24375 http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/par/26911 http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/par/26706 really pasteurisation is not high tek if illiterate nepalese farmers working in a mud walled barn can do it the youre going to be able to do it no with no fuss spawn is the hard bit - this is easy legal species only please Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eikel Posted February 12, 2006 have you guys ever read roadkills horse poo tek?it would give you some pointers http://home.iprimus.com.au/reville1/Method...lk/roadkill.htm Dunno about my friend, but I've definately read it. Have read TMC by Stamets and the entirety of the cultivation sections on shroomery, have also read "Growing Wild Mushrooms" by Bob Harris. My questions are not based on a lack of research, but on a lack of experience, I don't have confidence to advise my friend because these books/websites don't cover what he's doing. He DIDNT pasturize, he DIDNT sterilize, he's just working on blind luck, his tools are a microwave, stove, kettle and disinfectant wipes. Had my friend wanted to follow a procedure and not learn things himself by trial and error, I'm sure he would've already bought a pressure-cooker and followed a 'tek' already published. But, he's a stubborn guy and wants to grow things his own way. I'll stop posting in this topic if it's an annoyance, was just trying to share my friends experience(s). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iluvpills Posted February 12, 2006 Eikel, just got in from a club so im all loved up mate. Hey don't take any of what is written personal, i am sure everyone here has enjoyed reading about your friends little experience. I most certainly have. Keep the posts coming and i look forward to hearing the final results. :D :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted February 12, 2006 nah its all good seeing way out there experiments anyway my angle was that iver teh last 5 years ive seen endless newbs come and go with wild ideas over at the shroomery some work but most fail. Of the failures most are people who tried blind luck rather than the educated guess once you understand the solid principles and can recognise the impending success or failure you can respond accordingly. To do this you really need to be able to see if the myc is happy doing what youre asking of it, and do do that you need to at least know what myc should look like one of the fairly relaible principles that wasnt adhered to here nd that made warning bells ring as soon as you posted was that some outdoor "sweepings" offa the back patio (mainly straw and dead plant material) ontop of that. thats screams - mites and trichoderma to me lignous materials is a beacon for trich and in general lab myc doesn cope well with soil when coming straight off grains all excerabated by being wet to sume up i think the project might easily have succeeded if the mix was hot water pasteurised - ala bulk neglect (pouring over water from kettle, cool and drain) if any uncolonised bits of grain were removed from the spawn If no dirty plant debris was let near it and if the straw shit mix was allowed to drain well (overnight) that would conform to the winning formula of ; No unprotected high nutrient spots for opportunistic bactera, moulds and flies no insects nothing/minimal the species cant digest (no foothold for trichoderma) on the drier side (favours myc over bacteria) theres nothing at all wrong with ghetto teks they are the most rewarding there is huge scope for low tech advancemnets but you need to solidly understand your paramters and facilitate what the shroom wants the best way to do that is to repeat others expts and observe til you understand why it worked the art in shroomery is mostly observation and empathy :D no diff to plants really Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eikel Posted February 13, 2006 nah its all good seeing way out there experiments anywaymy angle was that iver teh last 5 years ive seen endless newbs come and go with wild ideas over at the shroomery some work but most fail. Of the failures most are people who tried blind luck rather than the educated guess once you understand the solid principles and can recognise the impending success or failure you can respond accordingly. To do this you really need to be able to see if the myc is happy doing what youre asking of it, and do do that you need to at least know what myc should look like one of the fairly relaible principles that wasnt adhered to here nd that made warning bells ring as soon as you posted was that thats screams - mites and trichoderma to me Were he trying invitro culvitation, I'm sure you'd be right, infact I've told him leave the invitro experiments to me - just awaiting on my subculture kit to arrive so I can start cultivating these oyster-spores I've got. I understand your POV regarding newbies coming on with their wild ideas - I get the same ALL THE TIME on OSA, generally at least 6 or so messages a day with crazy stupid theories... I tell them I don't know if it will work and to try it, and come back to me if they want help using the methods I employ, I've found by discrediting people outright when they are showing extreme enthusiasm just discourages them from ever asking me for advice again, and gives a negative perception of the site I'm providing advice for - something I noted immediately on Shroomery. Outdoors though, my experience with "accidentally" cultivating mushrooms by spreading mulches and composts on my lawn - and using things like anerobic phase-I compost, gives me a hunch that nature will take care of the contams itself, you just need to provide the spores and substrate for it to use. Trichoderma is interesting though - I have Canna CoCo, which is pre-treated with Trichoderma in my compost, here is an article I posted on OSA, showing mushrooms growing out of the compost heap, this is what leads me to believe nature will work things out without going to the efforts of sterilizing and cultivation indoors (http://cannabis.community.forums.ozstoners.com/index.php?showtopic=11460). One thing I noted and seemed to have confirmed later from a thread on shroomery by OttO, was mycellium LOVES seaweed extracts - both maxicrop and seasol seem to have positive affects on my composts in terms of causing "fruits" more often than when using only plain water - I asked why on shroomery, and was promptly ignored. Charlie Carp doesn't seem to make much of a difference, so maybe it's because of the natural horomones found in Kelp? Anyways, I'll keep you updated with any new occurances, only time will tell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genki Posted February 13, 2006 i recommend paul stamet's new book mycelium running for some good looking non strile techniques, i cant wait to try a few out this winter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eikel Posted February 14, 2006 i recommend paul stamet's new book mycelium running for some good looking non strile techniques, i cant wait to try a few out this winter Hey Genki, thanks, I'll order it when I get my next book-order in. Also... your name? "Nippongo Wo Hanashimasuka?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genki Posted February 14, 2006 i have no idea what you just said Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eikel Posted February 14, 2006 i have no idea what you just said Asked if you spoke Japanese, "Genki" is a word in Japanese meaning "energetic" or "healthy". Guess that's not the origin of your name then Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genki Posted February 14, 2006 that is the origin of my name, i just dont speak japanese. there is a shop called genki, i thought it sounded funky so i looked it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
