Aboriginal methods towards estatic states

[Andy the Great Something]

Greetings.

Say, I was under the impression that the native aboriginals' (is that the correct designation?) that they have more of a history of using other methods towards achieving estatic states than the poison path. Like starvation and water deprivation, pain, hypnotic dance trance and ritual death/rebirth stuff. I actually even recall reading somewhere that among the populations of the earth that the aboriginals of australia are unique in that they relied on these other methods. I'm assuming this is incorrect, right?

[mescalito]

Interesting thought.I'm sure 'our' aboriginals must share some cultural similarities from their afro/asiatic roots before they went walkabout and landed here so some of the rituals could have come from these regions too maybe??

[Andy the Great Something]

Hmmmmm..... I assume this theory of origin is based on anthropological and genetic data? ......... as opposed to aboriginal creation stories, right.

[Andy the Great Something]

nobody wanting to tackle this one aye? ............. am I that far off base?

[darkstar]

Oh man, this topic could get me in trouble… . If any of this thought 2b wrong or offensive I’ll remove it the instant I’m PM'd!

Hard to generalise as Australia is it is large, so home to an incredible diversity of tribes with that are different from one another. Also the cultures living in the costal / jungles of OZ (increased plant diversity available for use) were the cultures that were displaced (killed, murdered, raped, eg. genocide) by westerners wanting the land for there own ends. So sadly, much knowledge about likely plant uses has been lost.

Would say that “trances” induced by song and repercussive rhythms and dance is probably the only ones we’ll ever hear about. These things tend to be fiercely guarded.

I have heard about a ritual possession of an individual, by a malevolence spirit, in order to carry out the murder of some one who committed some unforgivable crime, like telling secrets to westerners, while avoiding the need for payback, occurring in come central OZ cultures.

Wether or not pharmaceuticals from plants are involved is a mater for speculation. The only thing I know about this with any confidence in a form of foot wear that did not live tracks.

Duboisia hopwoodii and Pituri are the only plant drugs I know of being used for intoxication, but so do you.

Right now alcohol and inhalant abuse (petrol sniffing) is casing no end of grief in some indigenous communities.

[Andy the Great Something]

Hmmmm, interesting. Thanks for the reply.

Things still pretty fiercly guarded aye? Yeah, who can blame them. Still I wish more was known....... about the dream time.

I live in Pocatello, Idaho, USA. We've got the Shoshone Blackfoot Rez right up the way. While doing my paramedic internship ride alongs this summer I saw alot of drug abuse among the tribes. Mostly, alchohol and inhalants..... alot of meth. Sad business indeed. Ran across one lady I know from around, Handcuffed, face all covered in silver paint. Don't look at me she sais. Don't look at me. I'll never forget it. Makes me wonder if a little non-native medicines would make a difference, like ayahuasca or ibogaine....... but I know it's gonna take alot more than that to make a real difference. The people are still getting skrewed. It seems like manifest destiny is still preached in the schools. White man superiority. Us and not them mentality. Me, my family, my church, my community, my nation. Fuck everybody else.

Blah!

[Hagakure]

anyone know the responses these traditional tribes have to drugs like lsd, psilocybin etc?

for one it would be better if people were using these drugs rather than paint because of the damage fumes do etc.

but would things change on a different level?

[darkstar]

anyone know the responses these traditional tribes have to drugs like lsd, psilocybin etc?

In my humble and very limited experience (like one case study), Marijuana was far more detrimental than in other ethnic groups.

Just like Europeans and opiates, Asians and alcohol….. List goes on.

Genetically determined IMO, based on cultural exposure over extended periods.

Europeans made foul water drinkable by sterilizing it with alcohol (brewing), selective presser selected for efficient alcohol-dehydrogenases to detoxify the ethanol. Asia was smart and just boiled water with a some herbs, eg. Tea. no selection presser.

[Hagakure]

well that then raises a few questions

1. how do these cultures react to chemicals that we have only been exposed to for first time - LSD and the like (unless you count ergot)

2. Have mushrooms already enacted their selection pressure like McKenna suggests (they are remarkedly non toxic to us)

as for asians i am pretty sure they have a long history of getting tanked on wine etc. while some cant handle it as well as others this does not kill them, they can still pass on their genes, no real selection pressure.

as for dope i would say it is definately going to mess up people with a lot of free time more than those that are busy. its effect is probably related to unemployment etc.