Voluntary voting ?

[2b]

I'm a big fan of compulsory voting as it stops alot of whinging about who is in power because everyone has had their say. I notice in the media today alot of talk of voluntary voting , this is how for example the USA system works. This in my opinion leaves the whole process open to be hijacked by lobby groups like the christian right has in America.

So should Australia introduce volutary voting ?

[faustus]

i agree with voluntary voting.

my reasons parallel those supporting the change in the voting system, i.e. in a democracy, it's undemocratic that voting is compulsory.

if someone doesn't vote, yes, they lose their right to have a say. however, their not voting strongly suggests that they sure as hell don't give a fuck about foregoing this right to begin with. if only 20% of the country votes, then the country will likely be hijacked by zealous lobby groups. but, again, the other 80% doesn't give a shit.

this might evoke the ire of some, but thank god we live in a democracy

[narayan]

Non-compulsary voting is an excellent idea imo. If voting at the last election wasn't compulsary the libs would not have got so many votes from the "I don't give a fuck about the elections, but the countries going pretty allright so i'll vote lib" camp. At least then the people who vote are actually the ones who take intrest in the political process.

[Benzedrine]

I hope we change to voluntary voting.

Compulsory voting takes away the most important choice of all, the choice to not cooperate. I've never voted and its not out of any sense of rebellion. I just don't have any faith in our democracy nor do I believe any party would actually rule any differently once they came to power. I would really rather a dictatorship since at least then we wouldn't be told we had a choice.

They used to call democracy the great experiment in the 19th Century. And frankly I really think that experiment failed miserably. People say communism doesn't work in the real world and I just look at them and go "and you think democracy does?".

[Torsten]

I believe democracy is not just a right, but also a responsibility. And hence I don't have a problem with the fact that participation is compulsory.

Just because your attentdance is compulsory doesn't mean that you have to vote for anyone. There is always the donkey vote.

[ramon]

I have not voted once as a mater of principle and ended up in jail for it so I think voluntary voting is something long overdue. However I am aware that the only reason it is being talked about now is because it would go a long way to entrenching the liberals in power.

[occidentalis]

I have not voted once as a mater of principle and ended up in jail for it so I think voluntary voting is something long overdue.

Really? Will you tell us more? I know a few people who refuse to vote for various ideological reasons and they have all been let off.

[nabraxas]

it's undemocratic that voting is compulsory--agree.

compulsory voting wouldn't be so bad if you could get out ov it for "moral reasons", just like Jehovahs & Mormons can get out ov it on "religious grounds".

There is always the donkey vote.

--you're kidding?? that's one ov the main reasons for not having compulsory voting.

[Legba]

maybe if there was something werth votin 4...

legalise mj...tick

make politicians responsible for what they do just as business exec's are...tick

i have no faith in the current system as i think its full of coruption and changes are needed...tick

taxing an item more than once should be illegal. gst? ok. levies and addon taxes?fuk off!...tick

free beer fridays...tick

one room 4 gigs for every 10 pokie machines...tick

stick the neuclear waste up hawkes ass...tick

wen th options are hot poker up arse/slam dick in car door, no one wants to choose either.

[MrBumpy]

Torsten : When you say donkey voting are you talking about just voting for whoever is on top of the ballot paper?

I personally never understood why people did this...if you don't care about it, there is no reason why you need to put pencil to paper and make a mark on the ballot paper.... just put it in blank. The same can be said for people who are saying they don't vote because they don't think any of the candidates don't deserve there vote.

I think compulsory voting is a good thing cause it makes people stop and think (at least for a second) about how this country is going to be run.

If you don't vote, don't bitch and moan about being hit with a fine... the only way you are gonna be able to change that is by voting.

-bumpy

[trixxy3]

I think compulsory voting is a good thing cause it makes people stop and think (at least for a second) about how this country is going to be run.

Thats a great point because it can keep the general population educated about the politicians and keep them accountable for all sectors of society, but its also a bad point because how many people before the last election were scared into voting liberal by their "labor raise taxes" advertisement campaign, even though it was a moot arguement due to no labor government in power with a gst?

It also raises the point that if voting is voluntary, are their limits on the number of terms, as in the USA, and does Australia have a high enough population for it to work?

[Torsten]

donkey votes are invalid votes. they are invalid because they do not conform to the rules. eg if you tick instead of cross, or if you but marks above the line (list voting) AND below the line (individual voting).

I understand that some people have genuine ethical stances against voting and I don't actually have a problem with them not voting. I do have a problem with those who could not be bothered informing themselves of their choices and on election day prefer to watch the cricket than to go and make their choice heard.

And yes, it is difficult to vote when there is mostly crap available. Which is why I would never vote for one of the major parties. Once you ignore the majors and you actually have a look at your candidates then chances are you will find someone who at least represents a large portion of what you stand for. eg, I would vote green knowing full well they would ruin the economy, but that doesn't matter because they won't get to govern anyway. I'd vote an independent gay candidate because at least he will advance equality. I would vote anyone who stands against ONE NATION ;)

Basically, by not voting you are approving the choices made by others. I know that's not fair, but that's how it ends up being. So if you don't want Howard or Meazly in power then vote for a minor party. Show the major parties that they do not speak for you.

[2b]

I still have to support that all eligable citizens over the age of 18 vote . It really is not much of an effort , you may decide not to contribute this time round but you should always have to stop and think. If voting is not compulsoray , things like peer group pressure on young people may see young people not voting , you could be seen un-cool for giving government a thought. Everyone has the right to be heard as it is now , you even have the right to say nothing , your only obligation is to turn up at a polling booth. Any move away from this system is another gradual erosion of what others litteraly die to have. If voting is left for the elite with a political involvment or interest at stake we all will live in a different country than that we know today.(IMO)

Also could you imagine how much money would be wasted by parties trying to get people off their asses on polling day ? People are basically lazy when it come to civil duties , and i guess alot of people that had ideas about the government of the day would just not be bbothered expressing them.

[Blue]

Compulsory voting. Otherwise our already crap 2 party system turns into a Liberal party nightmare heavily influenced by minority group zealots. It is NOT about whinging about not being able to vote minority parties like the greens into power. Change happens slowly (i.e. decades / centuries). Don't vote and change wont occur in eons let alone centuries. it IS about having a voice and KEEPING THE BASTARDS HONEST. Loose faith in our system, which ain't ideal but it is one of the best, and the bastards have won, coz I'll give you the tip, they will keep voting and all that means is TOTAL control of our countries political, economical and social direction with NO voice of reason to be heard in the halls of power and that is just plain SCARY.

[ramon]

Really? Will you tell us more? I know a few people who refuse to vote for various ideological reasons and they have all been let off.

I didn’t vote at the referendum about Australia becoming a republic because of the way little johnnie sabotaged it by tacking on the unpopular way of choosing the president i.e. chosen by parliament, instead of just asking Australians if we wanted a republic or not.

I received a letter from the Australian Electoral Commission asking me if I had any reasons for not voting at the referendum. I wrote back to them outlining my reasons which were.

1. I could not honestly endorse either of the choices.

2. I could not be sure about the consequences of either choice as, at the time both sides of the debate were running scare campaigns stated that a choice for the other side could lead to events similar to the rise of Hitler.

3. John Howard a avowed monarchist had politically manipulated the referendum in such a manner as to cause it to fail.

They wrote back to me and stated that my reasons where not valid and that I would be fined $20. If I wanted to contest their findings I could in court.

Before going to court I reviewed case law on compulsory voting and learnt that the best case for objection was based on religion so I explained point one to the judge framed within my Buddhist views that I should not tell a lie.

He essentially repeated one of the findings I had read in the case law about how I was required to express my preference of one of the candidates. Which highlighted to me later that he had obviously not even been listening or thinking about the case he presided over.

There were no candidates.

The fine of $20 was upheld and I was also charged something for court costs.

I paid the court costs but refused to pay the fine, but at the time their was a amnesty for fine defaulters in Queensland. When the amnesty was over I arranged to turn myself over to police as I did not want to be pulled over for speeding or some RBT sometime in the future and be hauled off to jail because of that fine, I wanted to get it over and done with.

On the day I had arranged I turned up to the police station and was locked up in the watch house for about 3 hours. It took the police this time to find the appropriate paper work. I didn’t know it at the time but apparently when you are locked up for any part of a day you a given a pro rata payment of $27 against any fines outstanding against you.

The police explained to me that the smartest thing to do when you are being jailed for not paying a fine is to turn up for detaining at 11.30 PM this way within 30 minutes you have wiped $54 dollars from the amount outstanding.

The police were actually very nice during this time stating to me they admired my principles and offering me coffee 3 times during this three hour period ( which I am fairly confident is not part of their usual service). But it did make me more cynical and showed me that in Australia we do not have a justice system, we have a system of Law.

[Rev]

i do like a system of law better than justice tho

law is just the word and get interpreted according to how good ur lawyer is

justice to me is synonymous with hate,revenge, getting tough and shit like that...ACA headliners

justice implies a code of morality attached to the law

'morality' as a tool for ruling other lives is abhorrent i think

Only the Law can be fair cos its just words not emotions

this coppers were nice to you as it seems they disagreed with the 'justice'. A perrennial problem with the police force especially when the offence is different and their idea of justice implies a n extrajudicial beating

id go with compulsory voting

if u really think theres noone worth voting for then start ur own political party

u might hit a chord

its suprising who can get into politics

[Green Osiris]

I only enrolled to vote last year after many years of anonimity on the register. My thoughts were once like Twix's and Benzedrine's, in that in a truly democratic society should not include a compulsory set of rules regarding polls. However, prior to the last federal election I decided to finally have my say, as small as that may be. Why ?

1. I am so utterly disgusted with the current and continued government rule, that it would be hypocritical of me to continue slagging off the party if I sit back and do nothing to try and stop another term from these warmongers.

2. Our vote has the potential to at least get an alternative party member elected that can offer a real alternative to the discussions and legislation change in the senate. Lets face it, the difference between labour/liberal really accounts for fuck all change to policy, but a party like the Greens may well do that - While socialist left parties may be more aligned to my core beliefs, the truth is, they'll probably never win a seat as a minority and really don't have the wide-ranging scope to play a credible role in the senate - but the preference votes are what should be looked at too.

3. For every vote towards an alternative party, they get additional federal funding if they gain a certain percentage of the federal votes (I think its around 5%). This funding, as small as it may be, offers them an ability to stay solvent.

4. I am registered (though no longer living) in John Howard's electorate, and there was a chance (I thought) that a vote DIRECTLY against Howard might see the Democrats representative in the same electorate beat the whining little runt.

5. I would have felt personally responsible if it became clear that Howard's government were elected by only one vote, and that my abstinence caused this to happen.

6. We've all seen what can happen under a non-compulsory democratic system in the USA.

Sadly though, in this country the christian right make it through the post anyway.

Popeye, how did you end up in jail for not voting ? Were you registered ? There’s a funny little law that means you can be fined (or worse) if you fail to exercise your duty as a registered voter, but if you aren’t registered in the first place, there’s no provision in the law to fine you.

[findbuddha]

Is it possible to remove yourself from the register? I don't neccesarily intend to, but the option would be nice....

[Benzedrine]

Commiting treason and not being pardoned is a way to get off the register.

Thats about it as far as I know of.

So if your desperate start ringing around the embassies in your area.

The voting process as it is now, is not democratic by definition for one clear reason. Those who have no faith in our political system as it is now, are given no option. You can supposedly pick any party but there is still a requirement to believe in our system. In this aspect our system is authoritarion. I can clearly understand those that believe this less democratic system is better for society as a whole. I can't really see how people think this leads to a better "democracy" since by definition compulsory voting is leading towards an opposing ideology.

[2b]

Look , as it is at the moment your only obligation is to turn up at a polling booth once every four or so years and have your name crossed off. The real question is :

"What is to be gained by moving to voluntry voting ? "

"Who will benifit from this move ?"

do you really think this whole issue is so those who don't want to go to a polling booth and get croosed off can stay home ? Do you really think this is to benfit the stonners that just can't be shagged getting off the couch ?

Come on , this push is comming from the right side of politics yet the left is banging the drum for them ? Why , obviously because they stand to benfit from voluntry voting. The point GO makes about funding to minority parties that gain a certain percentage is a good one , they stand to loose if voting is no longer compulsory.

So ask your self this , "Who benefits from a change like this ?"

NB: Just for the record i lean to the right and have no axe to grind with the fedral govt. I see this issue as bigger than both major parties , i see this issue as a basic issue of democracy .

[Ymir]

it just seems kinda strange to have people in other countries fighting for the right to choose who is in power, and here we are fighting for the right Not to choose.

maybe thats a little too simplistic, but i'td be a shame for simply the party with the most active political supporters to be the ones in power.

i'm only a young guy, but i looked forward to voting and actually got angry at my friends who didn't want to register, because in their words they "couldn't be bothered". i don't necessarily think that the choices we have are good, but i think that simply having the choice to vote is important. on many issues,i think that the western world is spoiled. we kick up a fuss and complain when one of our favourite TV shows is cancelled, or when they stop making your favourite brand of chocoloate, but when you take a step back from it all, a lot of our concerns are kinda trivial and it's hard to highlight that triviality because they are only concerns. like Elliot Smith said, "with no enemy out anger gets confused". if there is no great evil to fight, we kinda make a big deal out of nothing.

like i said, maybe it's an over simplification, but i'm only young, and i have lots of time to get it wrong before i get it right

[Torsten]

I think the core of the problem is that there are two types of people who don't want to vote. Those who object to voting and have made a conscious decision against it, and those who couldn't be bothered to vote. The voluntary voting agenda is pushed by those in the first group, but it is those in the second group that are the problem in my opinion.

People like Popeye have spent time thinking why they don't want to vote and I respect that. I believe there should be an option provided for those who want to show that they accept neither option provided (eg, an 'abstain' box). My gripe is with the lazy shits who whinge and whine for 4 years but on election day prefer to go to the pub. This is where I feel democracy is an obligation and responsibility, not just a right.

I am convinced that the Popeyes (ie those who have thought about it, but decided that they cannot or do not want to make a choice) are a very small minority of the people who are against compulsory voting. If you look at voluntary voting producing attendance of about 50%, and compulsory voting having over 80%, then I am sure only a very small part of the remaining 30% are in fact consientious objectors.

[nabraxas]

Definitions of Donkey vote on the Web:

The term used to describe a ballot paper marked with preferences for candidates without consideration of their policies or abilities. A classic donkey vote is one which records preferences straight down the ballot paper in the same order as the names printed. Usually refers to a ballot paper for a single member election. (See party linear vote)

www.elections.act.gov.au/glossary.html

In the Australian electoral system, a donkey vote refers to the practice of numbering the boxes on ballot papers sequentially from top to bottom. There are different versions of the phenomenon applicable in the Australian House of Representatives, Australian Senate and in the Australian jurisdictions that use the Hare-Clark system. Donkey votes are typically cast by uninterested or ignorant voters. ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_vote

[Torsten]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Here is another really goo site about the electoral system:

http://www.australianpolitics.com

[The Dude]

I believe that if it is to be a true democracy then voluntary voting is a must. If people are too lazy to vote and just don't care there is the risk of it being hijacked by lobby groups but such is the will of the people - if they don't give a shit then it will be up to those who Do give a shit to decide - be they leftist activist types or conservative old farts or.. *shudder* the Young Liberals. To me a Young Conservative is the definition of oxyMORON

My main gripe with compulsory voting is this, say some1 hates howard because of all his apparent lies and all that and in NO WAY wants to support howard, but they are uneducated about the prefrence system and just ignorant of politics generally they may indirectly vote him back into power. Such was the case of a certain lady that voted for Family First because well obviously they're for family values, and who isn't for that right? but of course they gave preferences to the liberal party. I'm sure this person wouldn't have voted at all if she didn't have to and that would be a lot better IMO.

I also agree with what narayan said that volntary voting would eliminate the group of people who dont give a shit at all about politics but just vote for the currently reigning political party because it seems to be working good enough. I remember one animated discussion I had with a friend after the election when she said she had voted liberal... It was mostly me abusing her with her conceding that I had a much greater passion for politics than her (or hate of certain politicians rather). She said "see that's why you should vote and i shouldn't have to"

That's why I firmly believe in voluntary voting, even if it will benefit the conservative side - it's about the principle! So be it that the ignorant masses don't vote and only the politically minded elite vote.