How do I prevent Myself from eating my peyote.(How do i know when it's ready to eat?)

[Guest Methfreak]

See topic.

[Guest reville]

Get yourself a decoy. quick.

like san pedro. Ive found that since i got those my thoughts have moved away from those

fragile little lophs.

Ive read it can take 12 years to grow loph to a size that would be considered a harvestable size - soo long. These really are collectibles for conservation and not consumables

[Guest Ramon]

I think the conventional wisdom is that it would take about 4 Loph's that were about 5 years old before it would be worthwile.

By that time you will Love all your little Loph's too much to eat them. (Maybe)

[Torsten]

However you can cut that waiting time in 1/5th by grafting the lophs onto Trichs !

I will soon be putting up a photo of a monster graft some 6cm high and 3 wide, which is only 2 years old. Pity it's not mine ;-)

Trich brisgesii is a good substitute while you have to wait for the Loph. But then again, you will probably enjoy the bridgesii more than the Loph anyway.

[Guest Ramon]

Would grafting cut down the time by so much , because wouldn't the Loph's still have to wait some to accumulate alkaloids.

I agree with T.bridgesii being a good substitute. Especially the montrose form AKA Penis Plant.

[M S Smith]

Lophophora alkaloid contents increase with age so a graft will not be as high in alkaloid concentrations as a plant of the same size grown on its own roots.

[Torsten]

Michael, what would be the ratios of alkaloid content in comparison? In Amsterdam they farm Lophs on pachanoi so they can sell them for shitloads in the smart shops. I never bought one, but would be interested how a three y.o. graft specimen would compare with a 15 y.o. root grown plant (both being of roughly the same size). Any figures? Any speculations?

[Guest John]

Yeah, I saw some dried peyote buttons when I was in amsterdam! One dried button was 60 guilder (30 USD). I'm sure many tourists buy it thinking they will trip. Too bad you would need about 4 of them ~ 120 US dollars!

How does the T.bridgesii montrose compare with normal form in alkaloids?

[rkundalini]

K.Trout claims (I shall check this when I get home) that there is something like a 5-10 times difference in potency between a few-years-old (perhaps grafted) peyote and a 30+ year old specimen harvested from the wild.

I think my strategy once I know which country I'll be living in will be to start up like 50 plants ASAP and try them at intervals of 10 years.

[M S Smith]

rkundalini, thanks for looking that one up, I was in to mood to go search through Sacred Cacti!

[rkundalini]

Hmm can't find the actual quantitative statement but a few excerpts:

"When a person grows a [peyote] cactus, even if it is under ideal conditions, from seed, for them to eat a plant that they grew, it is a young plant, even at 12 or 15 years of age.

Peyote users have to think about his like aged scotch drinkers and producers. What you produce has to be for the next generation or at least for the benefit of followers decades down the road."

...

"The difference is is that a wild, old Peyote is often many years of age. Many plants are far older than those who eat them no matter how old the human. Once plants pass a certain age (I believe it to be somewhere between 20 and 30 years of age) they acquire a 'presence' and become distinctively like people or at least individuals. These plants can project a presence whether you eat them or not. One of these plants is more than enough experience for most people. Younger plants, even if large, simply do not have this same force of presence. It is not because they are wild rather than domestic but rather due to their maturity and thus enhanced levels of alkaloids."

...

"I hold the following to be true despite partial conflicts with the published literature. Every year the alkaloid level rises... [goes into discussion of biosynthesis] ... I may be in error about the actual details of the dynamics involved but the subjective results and experience is both correct and readily observed.

Each year the sum total at a given point is higher than the year before. Feeding with a slow release nitrogen fertilser will produce even higher levels of alkaloid. An old plant, especially an adult that was taken from the wild and well fed in cultivation for a dozen years is phenomenal. A couple ounces of green material from one of these plants has produced far stronger effects than half a pound [which is generally the minimum dose he recommends elsewhere in the book] of wild collected adult cacti from the Rio Grande Valley."

So there you go, there's 421 other pages in that book, have I conviced you all to go buy it yet?