Supposed "Trichocereus validus" seedling confussion.

[hostilis]

So I have this little seedling that was started from Sacred Succulent's "Trichocereus validus" seeds. Only one survived and I grafted it., It was growing so damn slow for the longest time and not in a columnar fashion. I got to thinking the other day, "Hey, this looks like a globular echinopsis to me."

What do you guys think? This seedling was started back in november 2013 and grafted in december 2013.

Edited July 19, 2014 by hostilis

[dionysus]

doesn't look like the plant I'd call T. Validus, definitely resembles a globular Echinopsis or hybrid of such to me. my validus only has 7 or so ribs.

[Evil Genius]

Not sure about this One and too early to tell. Ben is a specialist with lot´s of field experience and i am pretty sure he wouldn´t label it that if he hadn´t had reason to believe it is in fact a Validus or anything close to it. Will ask him about the Plant and ask for a pic of their Motherplant.

But what i see here has a lot of Ribs, maybe even too much for the Validus we know from Backeberg and Ritter. I guess this could very well go into the Direction of Backebergs Trichocereus Manguinii (nomen nudum, don´t use that), which is some kind of columnar growing Trichocereus Schickendantzii but more in the style of a Terscheckii. Pretty sure the grown Plant will look very much like a Validus and is at least related to the one we know and accept. Though i don´t really think it´s the same.

We´ll have to wait until it´s bigger.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Evil Genius

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

its very pretty... validus or not , looks more like what i have in my head as validus than that NL thing to me...

which is still a very gorgeous tricho none the less , easily as gorgeous as taquimbo

variations in cacti are a tad recalcitrant when it comes to ID; I notice... not to mention frustrating at times..spesh when the cacti are young

I would just keep it's label and bide time, I just learned about the validus "issue" myself

, will be less time to wait cuz its grafted tho ... the only person with any real satisfactory answers I found so far is micromegas, maybe give em an ask?

...wishing you non-angular/blunt as a sausage ribs...., to go with the sexy whiter spination; in later life.

-Horsey

Edited July 19, 2014 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[mushroomman]

Trichocereus validus

Tree like cactus. Dark green stems up to 8" or more in diameter with 810 ribs. Large felty areoles with 710 radial spines and 12 central spines up to 3" long. White nocturnal flowers. Southern Bolivia. An impressive plant, slow growing and rare in cultivation.

looks like it fits ss's description but the description isn't what you would call a validus?

[mushroomman]

Should be some interesting plants once they develop

Edited July 19, 2014 by mushroomman

[Evil Genius]

Hi Mushroomman, well, it has actually too many ribs for the description of Validus but maybe it will lose some in the future. We´ll see.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Evil Genius

[Jox]

810 ribs & 710 radial spines !! That awesome .

[hostilis]

Here are some photos of it taken today. The last ones were taken about 1-2 months ago (can't remember exactly when) The growth is very slow and it looks like young echinopsis pups. I know these photos don't really help with the ID, but I thought I'd post them anyways.

It seems to be growing in more of a columnar fashion now.

[hostilis]

And by the way mushroomman, I was expecting one of the terscheckii like T. validus plants. Not one of these globular echinopsis type clumping trichs. I was sent the seed from a friend who bought them from SS so I didn't get around to reading their description of it.

[mushroomman]

@EG I fully agree mate, I was just saying it fits the description they have put up on site but the description doesn't fit validus

@ hostilis I just read the description properly the other day and was suprised at what it said, I was expecting it to be more along the lines of terscheckii too? but it does sound like it's going to be one awesome plant.

[M S Smith]

So what's the description say?

~Michael~

[mushroomman]

Trichocereus validus

Tree like cactus. Dark green stems up to 8" or more in diameter with 810 ribs. Large felty areoles with 710 radial spines and 12 central spines up to 3" long. White nocturnal flowers. Southern Bolivia. An impressive plant, slow growing and rare in cultivation

[DiscoStu]

i have a seedling labelled "Validus? Nl52.509a" apparently from SS, and it looks literally nothing like this.

[mushroomman]

Yeah bot6 those ones are taquimbalensis or werdermannianus by tooks of them

[hostilis]

This was the T. validus seed. Not the seedlings they sell. They are from different stock for sure. You have to order the catalog to see these seeds. They aren't listed on the website.

[Evil Genius]

I will add the descriptions from all authors on the Trichocereus.net Website. But it might take a while. Slowly filling up every page with text.

Just to be clear. Was that grown from the standard Validus Seed or the Neil Logan Validus seed? Because the latter is not a Validus.

[DiscoStu]

no i got it from an Australian seller who apparently grew it from seed,

that's all i know

[Evil Genius]

Hi bot6! I meant the Plant in Hostilis pics because, like you very well observed, this plant doesn´t look anything like the Trichocereus that Neil Logan Collected. Btw, i DO have pictures of all the pictures from the Motherplants. The NL Trichocereus included. Can´t post them but i will have a look at them and tell you what i see! :-D

[mushroomman]

These are my 4 NL validus seedlings

[Evil Genius]

Yeah, that´s taquimbalensis. Looks great though!

[hostilis]

I'll talk to my friend who purchased the seeds from SS and see what they were listed as. I'll get back to you with what he tells me.

[mutant]

mushroom man they indeed look tac/taq

[hostilis]

My friend sent me this picture. This is the seed pack that it came from. T. validus from SS.

Edited July 22, 2014 by hostilis

[mutant]

but hey they're small

the one on the left seems to have sparce spination, and hey, lets consider the possibility validus is only a var of terscheckii or tac/taq with sparcer and/ or alternate spination . And from what it seems there might be a couple of such specimens...

WOW I thought of something interesting... We see lots of the real "validus" with the sparce spination and the downward , seemingly weak , rather light coloured spines... in OZ.... and OZ is known to have lots of the spineless scop, well there's were mine comes

could this fucker - mean the real validus, be a hyrcid between a tac/taq or an terschecki and a ......... scop?

that might explain the dramatic reduction of the spines, and hey, they occur in the same fucking areas no??? there are terscheckiis and tac/taqs in BOlivia here scop is also present no?

Edited July 22, 2014 by mutant

[M S Smith]

Apparently T. terscheckii do grow in the far south of Bolivia, but not as common or widespread as in Argentina.

Here's the one I want...

http://www.succseed.com/seeds-cacti/trichocereus/trichocereus-terscheckii-mn-0531-e-palos-blancos-909-tarija-boli.html

I like how it says "interesting form with almost spineless ribs, far different from the forms of Argentina!"

Could this be the renowed T. validus?

Here's a few more of the same sort from the same region around Tupiza...

~Michael~

Edited July 22, 2014 by M S Smith