Foliar Feeding Trichocereus.sp

[katu]

Read an article some time back, can't for the life of me remember where?? Regarding foliar feeding Trichocereus.sp at night while their pores are open, apparently with very good results. The grower would get up at midnight and spray his/her T.sp with seaweed & fish emulsion once or twice a week. Obviously would have to be careful regarding over watering, etc especially in the cooler months. Would like to here the opinion of some experienced growers. I myself would have reservations but then I don't really know what the f%$* i'm on about. Thanks!

[Dreamwalker.]

that's a really interesting topic.................I think there's a lot of opportunity to speed up the growing process........all kinds of ways.....ideally if combined may have an additive effect...........open to experiment...........not sure if you have seen this already...........

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=38204

[katu]

Wow! That's pretty amazing research Dreamwalker, could essentially be a game changer for the agricultural industry. Great website too! Regarding the foliar feeding was thinking of taking say two 30cm cuts of the same clone, rooting them, and placing them side by side in the same potting mix. Treat one as per normal regarding watering/feeding and foliar feeding the other. Maybe start a grow log thread so as others could see the results. Probably wait till next spring though, getting a bit late in the season..

[Dreamwalker.]

If you do that................be sure to post pic's and your results......I'd be really interested in reading them.....................

it has crossed my mind .....the idea of some member competition................as there's a lot of seed shared around.........comparisons of growth rates using different tec's .......who can make their cactus explode first................

[katu]

Will do Dreamwalker, that would be cool regarding a member comp, i'd definitely be keen! How would one standardise it though? Same seed stock or clone. Using the same clone would obviously have more defined results but could be tricky... ie not everyone gonna an Alf or whatever.

[AndyAmine.]

I foliar feed my trichs at night in the warmer weather, but mostly on dehydrated specimens because is fattens them up much quicker.
I keep it to once or twice a week if I can remember.

[franky]

I would personally only foliar feed if overcoming deficiencies brought on by bad root zone or something. Otherwise let the roots do what they have evolved to do, uptake nutrients ;)

[Bryce]

Is it foliar feeding or is it just running down the plant into the roots. I would want to see a controlled study where during the foliar feeding the roots were covered compared to a group that is uncovered and then throw in a group that is root fed the same formula.

[franky]

I guess you would need an adjuvant yeh, I never foliar feed any of my plants, but I guess you could use an organic insecticide like eco oil.

[EthnoGuy85]

"Some work has been done recently with foliar feeding of cacti, in particular Trichocereus. Their CAM mode of respiration and photosynthesis means that the stomata of the cacti are open at night and closed during the day. Low dilutions of peters 20:20:20 (1/4 tsp per gal) may be sprayed onto the cacti around midnight or so. The plants do well being foliar fed twice weekly when stomata are open, remember to rinse them if they have had no overhead water. The result is a cactus that almost glows, the glaucous coating becomes more prominent and the trace elements of the fertilizer (peters) help the cacti produce its defensive alkaloids. A hormone rich seaweed extract may be of use in foliar feeding as well. Indoors or in the greenhouse Co2 enrichment would also be done at night. An ideal Trichocereus indoor grow would have hot day temperatures in the 90s or so and cool nights in the 50-60s, the cool nights would have Co2 enrichment and an overhead spray system for foliar feeding being cautious to avoid an excess of moisture that may promote rot. "

From the nook archives article synthesized by Archea. Article is titled Trichocereus Growers Guide

[katu]

Andyamine, when foliar feeding do you cut back your regular watering schedule? The reason i'm interested in this is that I live in the tropics and as a result my soil has a lot more mineral in it than most and I tend to water less. Am essentially looking at ways of maximising my nutrient uptake without overwatering.

Franky I do agree with you on one hand, letting the roots do what they have evolved to do. On the other hand human beings have been maximising plant growth for eons. I'm not talking g.m. or any crap like that. Some simple examples would be tipping a plant to promote more shoots or using green manure crops inbetween plantings to replenish nutrients.

Bryce mate the theory behind foliar feeding is most cactus, def trichocereus are CAM plants or in unintelligible English crassulacean acid metabolism. In lay terms which are all I understand transpiration does not happen at the same time as photosynthesis but instead occurs at night. The plant stores carbon dioxide as malic acid, retaining until daylight returns thus minimising transpiration. So by foliar feeding at night when the pores of the plant will be open means that the plant takes it in through its skin. This technique has been used on non CAM plants with lots of success. Off topic, is there a fancy word non CAM plants

Edited April 20, 2014 by katu

[katu]

Deleted

Edited April 20, 2014 by katu

[katu]

Thanks ethnoguy, was wondering where I had originally read that article. I do agree that rot could be a real issue. Reckon andyamine might be onto something regarding only on dehydrated plants

Edited April 20, 2014 by katu

[Bryce]

Andyamine, when foliar feeding do you cut back your regular watering schedule? The reason i'm interested in this is that I live in the tropics and as a result my soil has a lot more mineral in it than most and I tend to water less. Am essentially looking at ways of maximising my nutrient uptake without overwatering.

Franky I do agree with you on one hand, letting the roots do what they have evolved to do. On the other hand human beings have been maximising plant growth for eons. I'm not talking g.m. or any crap like that. Some simple examples would be tipping a plant to promote more shoots or using green manure crops inbetween plantings to replenish nutrients.

Bryce mate the theory behind foliar feeding is most cactus, def trichocereus are CAM plants or in unintelligible English crassulacean acid metabolism. In lay terms which are all I understand transpiration does not happen at the same time as photosynthesis but instead occurs at night. The plant stores carbon dioxide as malic acid, retaining until daylight returns thus minimising transpiration. So by foliar feeding at night when the pores of the plant will be open means that the plant takes it in through its skin. This technique has been used on non CAM plants with lots of success. Off topic, is there a fancy word non CAM plants

While open pores and foliar feeding sounds good and I do believe it may have some effect but the fluids would run down from the plant before the plant could absorb them. Even a sponge does not absorb water straight way. Each pore should have some air creating a bubble when the fluids hit the pores. I would suggest the fluids do get in there but the absorbency factor would take a while to break surface tension and get in the plant. Before this could happen the fluids would have run down the ribs of the plant and to the roots. Unless the roots are blocked from receiving I would suggest nothing would be proven. This is my perception but obviously those who have done it would have more experience than I do. I have done foliar feeding with mineral but never organics as organics normally need to come in contact with organisms that process it down for the plant. Other than nitrogen most of the nutrients in organics are locked in.

[franky]

I understand plants can uptake nutrients through foliage, but if you are supplying the root zone with all the necessary elements to achieve the individual plants full genetic potential, why spray onto the foliage what advantages are you getting?

Different ball game when it comes to hormones imo.

[katu]

You could well be right Bryce, and I do see what you mean by it would be a hard "prove" so to speak, in the sense of the water running down the column onto the roots. When I water any columnar I can't help but feel part of their form in an evolutionary sense is to "funnel" water down the ribs straight onto their roots if that makes sense? Only a theory through observation. I would still be interested in taking two cuttings of the same clone next growing season out of interest, as stated in my earlier post. I would love to know a bit more regarding organic nutrients being locked up so to speak. Are we talking a bacterial symbiosis so to speak?

[katu]

Hey franky, like I said mate my main issue is climate. I mean most people can feed and water the crap out of their Trichocereus so to speak in the hotter months. Where as the hotter months or growing season where I live is the wet season, my plants are under cover obviously but due to humidity even with a very free draining mineral potting mix it can take my plants weeks to dry out therefore causing issues with rot. Also being heavy on the minerals rather than organics in regards to potting mix there's not much nutrient in the soil to begin with. Finally due to me using organic ferts and under watering I have to suffer issues with hydrophobia so even when I do feed them I'm not sure they're getting the most out of the fertilizer.

[franky]

Fair enough then mate, in your case foliar feeding may be necessary, although I would first try top dressing my plants with fertilliser, but that's because I wouldn't want to wake up at midnight and foliar feed all of my plants in the dead of night, knowing me id end up with spines sticking out all over lol

I'm curious as to your media as well, as you say its heavily mineral based and still becomes hydrophobic when very dry. I personally have found this to be opposite when using heavy sand/scoria mixes. Only mixes heavy on organics minus coir (which is awesome lol) have hydrophobic tendencies when heavily under watered. But this is purely anecdotal evidence on my behalf.

Best of luck

[katu]

When top dress with fert do you mean a slow release pellet? If so can you recommend a good one for cactus? Have only used liquid organics in the past, seasol, fish emulsion and so on. I think that's whats causing the hydrophobia to be honest, probably the fish emulsion more than anything. As far as soil media goes for my water tolerant species, ie Trichocereus, Cereus and the like lets say even parts coarse sand, 5mm gravel, perlite, and a good quality potting mix sifted for bark. I should mention the minerals are washed and sifted for fine particles. As far as getting up at midnight i'm one of these strange human beings who apparently doesn't need sleep . Up till midnight then awake by 5:00am.

[franky]

Hey mate,

Sorry not too up on the slow release organic pellets, I use synthetic fertiliser at potting up time just a basic one.

Not too sure about the ferts being the cause, as I don't have much experience with them personally, although the sifted potting mix may be the problem, especially if it is a peat based mix, as that is a lot of what you would be getting. Is the mix also shrinking? Does water just run down sides instead of infiltrating centre of mix?

[katu]

Mate I think the biggest problem with organic fert, especially fish emulsion is the oil content, thus hydrophobia. Not sure I agree with you on not sifting potting mix either. The common censuses seems to be that the bark composts down which can cause problems with rot. This will over time cause your mix to become acidic which is not ideal. I've always been an organic gardener in the past, not havin a go at mate over synthetic fert merely a personal preference. It's not a problem with anything other than cacti for me personally, but then there's not many plants which like having their soil dried out between waterings. I'm starting to lean towards using synthetic fert for my cactus but would like to explore other options first, hence foliar feeding.

[franky]

In regards to pine bark how is it any different to other organic ingredients? It will all eventually break down yes in different time frames die to particle composition and size. In regards to sifting I personally found a few premium mixes at buninngs to contain a fair bit of peat which you would be getting if you sifted the bark out. Peat is a consoderably hydrophobic medium until wet

[katu]

Mate I do see your point regarding pine bark... That's interesting regarding the hydrophobic qualities of peat found in commercial potting mixes. I wasn't aware of that. It tends to hold water when its wet too doesn't it? Not the best choice for cactus and certainly not the best choice ethically, carbon storing, non renewable, etc. I'm beginning to get the impression all commercial potting mixes are varying degrees of crap.. even the expensive ones. I once found glass in a searles premium potting mix bought from bunnings. Not impressed

[Bryce]

You could well be right Bryce, and I do see what you mean by it would be a hard "prove" so to speak, in the sense of the water running down the column onto the roots. When I water any columnar I can't help but feel part of their form in an evolutionary sense is to "funnel" water down the ribs straight onto their roots if that makes sense? Only a theory through observation. I would still be interested in taking two cuttings of the same clone next growing season out of interest, as stated in my earlier post. I would love to know a bit more regarding organic nutrients being locked up so to speak. Are we talking a bacterial symbiosis so to speak?

Yes the bacterial symbiosis, fungal, as well as enzymes produced by the plant. Nitrogen as long as it is fixed can be taken up as it is more soluble and gassy. That would have an effect foliar and root. Rain water has nitrogen that is fixed and after a rain you will get instant results.

[EthnoGuy85]

Fine pine bark or other conifer bark isn't the problem, as these contain oils/sap that prevent them from breaking down quickly. Tho they do tend to lower the soil ph a bit. But this can be remedied by adding a bit of lime when mixing the soil and through annual applications.

The problem is larger bark pieces and wood. The would breaks down rapidly and robs nitrogen from the soil to decompose. Also it heats the soil up as it decomposing which in areas with high heat is a problem as Tricho's prefer a cool rootzone. The larger bark is just a problem as it is just too big in size.