mushroomman Posted March 4, 2013 Thanks man, will do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mushroomman Posted March 10, 2013 These bloody things keep failing on me I decided to cut another validus areole off today for another go , I left a lot more flesh on it this time and I grafted a tbm areole as well 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) but they are bloody difficult grafts, in general, and probably very slow to establish aswell. i mean if you cut a pedro, than it will take quite a while for the areolea (plural form) to produce a pup. regarding my, loph areola grafts, nothing yet is happening either, but the union looks good and strong. pedro areolae are much more difficult it seems, compared to loph's. i like that you don't give up, and above graft pics look very good indeed. btw, i only grafted a tbm (the normal way) once and it didn't grow any faster than on it's own roots. Edited March 10, 2013 by planthelper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookahhead Posted March 10, 2013 Mushroom man, did you stab wooden skewers through the root stock to be able to place your rubber bands on? I have never seen anyone do it this way and I am pretty sure that the cactus isn't going to enjoy that. Not to mention the increased risk of infection from when the wood starts to rot, or you remove the skewers and have nice hole through the whole cactus? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mushroomman Posted March 10, 2013 Mushroom man, did you stab wooden skewers through the root stock to be able to place your rubber bands on? I have never seen anyone do it this way and I am pretty sure that the cactus isn't going to enjoy that. Not to mention the increased risk of infection from when the wood starts to rot, or you remove the skewers and have nice hole through the whole cactus? Yeah I did stab skewers into the stock but I made sure they didn't hit the core, Thedoodabides mentioned using toothpicks but they weren't strong enough to get enough pressure on the graft so I used these instead and they don't stay in long enough to start rotting , I don't think it would be much different than when two branches grow against each other and the spines stick into each other anyway , they heal up fast once removed so I don't think it will be a problem Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mushroomman Posted March 10, 2013 Planthelper , they are proving to be quite a challenge but I have a good feeling about these two for some reason I'm not to worried about there growth rates I just think it would be cool to know I can successfully do them if I ever need to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bert&Ernie Posted March 10, 2013 Mushroom man, did you stab wooden skewers through the root stock to be able to place your rubber bands on? I have never seen anyone do it this way and I am pretty sure that the cactus isn't going to enjoy that. Not to mention the increased risk of infection from when the wood starts to rot, or you remove the skewers and have nice hole through the whole cactus? I am sure EG uses this method??? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
modernshaman Posted March 10, 2013 There are two things that I've noticed that makes or breaks areola grafts are pressure and amount of exposed flesh on the scion (areola). I use a screen stretched over the trichocereus very tight and cut the areola flat so that the skin surrounds the entire areola. The more flesh exposed the more it dries out/shrinks making the graft fail. Your tbm graft looks like it will succeed. The validus graft has a chance of success assuming there is high pressure. Why don't you use a faster stock like mutant suggested it will cut down the pupping time by weeks even months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mushroomman Posted March 10, 2013 Thanks for the tips modernshaman, I only have pach and pereskiopsis ATM and I need all the Peres I have for seedling grafts, what stock would you recommend using that is easy to get a hold of in Australia ? Do you think applying some BAP to the areole would help? And with large areola like my validus do you think it would be better to do something like a wedge graft in order to make sure no flesh is exposed ? Does anyone know if you can even do wedge grafts with trich stock? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted March 11, 2013 @ modernshaman, you haven't read the thread haven't you, it's ok, but if you repeat what has been said already, it would be nice to acknowledge the former. @ mutant, selenicereus might be a virgorous stock, but it's disgusting and easely gets blemishes, i find every stock not pleasing the eye, apart of echinopsis, just mho. i got some selenicereus grafts, and i don't love them, so they don't get as a good a treatment as my echinopsis grafts. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lhb2444 Posted March 11, 2013 Loving the cacti favouritism ph, I must say I much prefer the look of trich/enchinopsis as stock compared to most other suitable grating stock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jox Posted March 11, 2013 If you are serious about making this work & I think you are , then you want the best stock & mutant is right! @PH, I think the way you think the stock looks might be all in your head my friend, & it is irrelevant. You want to use the stock that give you the best results & if anyone is successful with Validus, it is going to have to be de-grafted down the track anyway. Cheers jox 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted March 11, 2013 in this case it's irrelevant, but in all the cases where you will not degraft, at any later stage, i'd go for the pedros, because any graft ought to have esthetic value! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mushroomman Posted March 15, 2013 My tbm is still looking good and the validus has attached itself well but doesn't took anywhere near as healthy, do you think it still has a chance planthelper? Validus http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz109/681986jordan/2AEDAF9A-A82E-41FC-99C3-8F4A9DAD538D-2203-0000023AE971F8E7_zps911a62e5.jpg http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz109/681986jordan/2F1F3F20-A3C8-4C0C-B3B9-EB8B138817C7-2203-0000023ADB25BE81_zps1ae34947.jpg Tbm http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz109/681986jordan/41A33293-49E8-43EC-9C6D-3F2761EB8E93-2203-0000023AC9A6BB12_zpscdceb394.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted March 15, 2013 nupe the validus looks, like it's not gonna make it. tbm, as you say looks good, but I add one more thing, it would have been slightly better to remove just the edge of the skin of the scion, because we can observe, in the pic, how it's not shrinking, and now tries to push the scion off a bit. would have been tricky though to harass that edge. one more thing, the smaller the scion, the smaller cutting tools you use, I like the blades out of throw away razors... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mushroomman Posted March 15, 2013 I use these blades for small grafts , a pack of 100 was only $15 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) I use these blades for small grafts , a pack of 100 was only $15 for me they would be already far too big, I even break the one's of the throw away razors into smaller sections, for fine work like trimming the scion, and seedlings grafting. but I would not be surprised if nobody else agrees... there has to be a proportion between, the size of the workload, and the tools used, imo. another thing is, that the throw away blades are thinner, than the bigger ones, and the thinner the blade just cuts a little bit better, and bruses the tissue hopefully a bit less. Edited March 16, 2013 by planthelper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted March 16, 2013 this is a quick reply, regarding another method of areola grafting. I learned this method reading here at sab, but don't remember who posted it, I believe the original idea came from the nook. i'm sure different designs of "areola removers" could be applied, mine is fashioned out of an old beer can. I think augers are not suitable, because of there thickness, which would bruse the tissue a lot, but go ahead and use what ever you find, as this method has big advantages. in short, one can remove an areola more surgically. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted March 16, 2013 not all grafts should have aesthetic value. some grafts are temporary and some are inteded as mother plants to further propagate and yeah , echinopsis hidden stock is perhaps one of the best options for aesthetics... cheers 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted March 17, 2013 not all grafts should have aesthetic value. some grafts are temporary and some are inteded as mother plants to further propagate and yeah , echinopsis hidden stock is perhaps one of the best options for aesthetics... cheers do you know the detective show "monk"? he got ocd, me too, i have to obey the ocd, it doesn't allow me to use stock which i feel is not aesthetic. it's not as much a "like thing", it rules suprem and can't be over ruled... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted April 10, 2013 update! the areolae grafts I did on the 26 feb 2013 (post #8) are now for the first time, showing there pups breaking through. I conclude, grafting loph areolae is easy, but the same thing using pedro, is very tricky, or next to impossible. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mushroomman Posted April 10, 2013 Nice one planthelper all my areola grafts failed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bert&Ernie Posted April 10, 2013 wow that pup looks gnarly thumbs up to you planthelper!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted April 18, 2013 a good soul did send me a pm, which I will copy and paste into this thread. BUT REMEBER under normal circumstances, never post the content of a privat message!!! this information, made me try again today, to graft some crest areolae onto echinopsis and one onto peres. I always say never give up on grafting, so I have to heed my own word... Hi, Go the The Nook. There's a nice aerole grafting thread there called "cloning Eileen." Keep at it, aerole grafts ARE very important. I've got a 6'' Eileen, I can grow it out and have it be 12'' tall by fall. OR I can graft all of the areoles and have around 40 Eileens by fall. It's a good method for propagating a given clone. The only thing that I can help you with is be sure to put the graft in high humidity and no light for the first week, then slowly adjust it to light. AND Try putting a wad a toilet paper on the aerole, then use electrical tape and tape over the aerole, attaching the tape to the pot. USE A LOT OF PRESSURE! So much pressure, you'd think it's going to harm the aerole. I've had near 100% success. You are correct, It's best to cut the stock into a spear shape and allow it to dry before grafting. And it's also a good idea to bevel a bit of the waxy skin off the edge so it doesn't push against the stock and remove the aerole. Pereskiopsis grow really fast, Imagine it you can figure out how to graft trich aeroles to peresk. You could have thousands of a given clone in no time. Keep at it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
