doklikit Posted December 10, 2002 It seems the American Govt. are about to make Ayahuasca illegal.For a starter I can't see how they could be ahead of Australia given our amazing laws ! This is a post from someone in the States . "I use this medicine just like everyone else and I can not help but see my rights eroding away. Why can't I do this alone anymore? I'm not hurting anyone. Is there some history that shows that this is a dangerous "drug"? Has someone been hurt by it? Is it addictive? Who says it's dangerous and why do they say that? What are they afraid of anyway? They want to tell me that unless I belong to a church I can't continue with what I have been doing for the last 25 years? 5 or 6 times a year I have a group over. We respect these times. I just don't get it. Who is out there in "raves" playing with this? Can you buy it on the street? Are the teenagers raping their girlfriends while under the influence? What is happening here in this country? Is there some dealer lurking near the entrance to a disco, whispering "ayahuasca, ayahuasca"? Why can't we purchase this, prepare it and praise it in all it's wonders and glories? DMT? DMT is a powder that was made illegal. Comparing a glass of ayahuasca to that experience is like preparing a cup of coca tea to cocaine. We all know that coca tea is available in shops all over the US and the World. Who is trying to do this to us and why? For what? What do they get out of it anyway? Okay, okay, set up the churches, but there will never be enough. There will never be a branch near where I live. So I will have to break the law. The individual. I will to seek my God in the way that I chose to, regardless of what "they" tell me to do. "They" have no right to do this. " Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doklikit Posted December 10, 2002 I am writing from the first country in the world to make the use of Salvia a jailable offence. A country where we don't even have the right as far as I know to peruse our true beliefs in such churches and religions of which you speak.Seems every time just about anything that might encourage thinking outside T H E I R square arises , they squash it. I am reading a book about a guy named Giordano Bruno , a book described as a medieval "Beautiful Mind".Back in the 1500's the Catholic church made an art form of murdering anyone brave enough to speak their mind against the Church's doctrines.Future generations will read of the start of the 21st century and shake their heads in disbelief at a time in history when Governments of the world ran roughshod over their people like never before.Why are western governments so scared of a person quietly taking mushrooms or LSD or perhaps even Ayahuasca? Could it be because what some here are experiencing is indeed absolutely correct?Does this mean that we the people might rise up with our cudgels against the might of the technological warrior of the western nation?Are they afraid we will tear down their cement and steel castles by inciting the common man in the street ?There are too many inconsistencies in this Animal Farm we call Western society.We are faced with spin doctors ,a bought media, brainwashed neighbours ,and rules that bend on command.Unfortunately we now need men of the calibre of Francis Bacon or Copernicus to throw some reason in the face of irrationality.It's David verses Goliath. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted December 10, 2002 Ayahuasca has been illegal in the states for quite some time (decades) [its only legal if its free of ANY tryptamines and even then beta-carbolines COULD be covered as illegal tryptamine derivatives in the analog laws, but that hasnt been tested in court last I heard]. Coca tea is NOT available in america, its illegal too. Both are prosecuted at the same level as heroin and crack. Anything claiming to be coca tea is mormon tea, or ephedra at best and if I remember right even claiming something is coca tea is illegal (I do know its illegal to buy bottled water if the person selling it claimed it was coca tea). Freedom of religion? Sure, we have freedom of religion... we have the freedom to practice any religion that receives official federal funding, and islam too! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterdragon Posted December 11, 2002 i think these problems stem from a differnce in perspective - to the governments these things are illegal and threatening - to the users these things are none of the governments fucking business and beyond their scope of the human experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted December 11, 2002 dragon- but why does the govt. find them threatening? after all, thanks to the info they share w/the USA & UK's mind control programs(MKULTRA), THEY know a damn sight more about these drugs than anyone. after Dr tim leary went to jail, ALL civilian research into LSD worldwide was & still is criminal. after the FDA put Dr wilheim riche in jail, all research/therapy with orgone energy worldwide was & still is(technically) ileagle. as the guy on sample on the hallucinogen track "LSD" says- these things open a door, which They don't want us to go thru, because each time we do it take us a little bit more out ov their control. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted December 11, 2002 Well we all know that most of all governments are wrong and unfair, that it doesn't matter how dangerous a drug is for it to be legal or illegal... Certain drugs that cause temporary insanity, memory loss and are very harmful to mind and body, are legal and even funded by the government, while other, harmless and enlightening ones are illegal and their use punishable by jail, ... searching for reasons and arguing just makes those in power who are pulling the strings smile in a bored way... It's not about what's right and what's wrong, it's about getting good governments,.., a task which is almost impossible to achieve since we all have to share the planet with minds that have been brainwashed since ay 1 when they were born...so have we, but at least we put in an effort to de-condition ourselves, drugs are good helpers in those tasks, which maybe a major reason for them being illegal: They represent "keys" which may unlock the doors of the "mind-prisons" the ruling class has made for us, so we will be led and misled easier, that's why those in power hate drugs because they may open our minds so we will stop becoming soldiers, policemen, bureaucrats, businessmen, in short we will not help to further cement or concrete the foundations of this evil (american-run)empire, we might even start to nibble at them... and those suckers can't have that of course... DOWN WITH ALL EMPIRES! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted December 11, 2002 "They represent "keys" which may unlock the doors of the "mind-prisons" the ruling class has made for us," - thats what i was trying to say. you've made it clearer - cheers. "it's about getting good governments,"- i disagree w/this statement only. to me, it's about getting rid ov government, & i maintain that any form or type ov governance can never be, in any sense ov the word, "good" for anything in this universe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted December 11, 2002 "that's why those in power hate drugs because they may open our minds so we will stop becoming soldiers, policemen, bureaucrats" No, there afraid of people becoming just, compassionate, and honest soldiers, policemen, bureaucrats, etc... I'm not against cops or soldiers, I'm against cops and soldiers that lie, cheat, steal, murder for fun and profit, and commit crimes against humanity (ok, I guess that means I am against 99% of cops and soldiers but if people like us become cops that figure might go down a little). The good see that cops often become corrupt and seeing the harm caused by corruption they choose not to become cops. The bad see that cops often become corrupt and seeing the power caused by corruption they choose to become cops. I think more good people should take the risk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted December 12, 2002 sorry auxin, i have to disagree w/you as well. it's not about the character ov the cop, it's the job they are forced to do, which increasingly has little to do w/solving crime, & more to do w/enforcing the law, eg: by stopping marches, breaking picket lines, closing down 'illeagle parties', busting drug users etc, etc. AND as for soldiers,....remember they are trained to kill anyone- even citizens ov their own country- they are ordered to. it takes a special type ov person to want to be a soldier- teachers can usually spot them by about age 15/16. also remember that in the very end, the 'power of the state' depends upon the threat ov the violence that will be done to anyone who challenges it- via the army, police, & prison system. australia itself was once used as a threat to keep the proles inline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
