Natural Birth Control

[Jack]

What options are there for natural birth control, other than counting days in the cycle, are there any helpful herbs?

help appreciated.

[Auxin]

There are MANY plants containing abortifacients (sp?) that can help you after the fact.

[theobromos]

Most of them deadly.

[Guest reville]

Alot of herbal contraceptives are actually abortifacients, emmenagogues (induce premature menstruation) or phyto-oestrogens.

Cyclical counting, temp etc plus these herbs is really the only alternative.

dangerous stuff like pennyroyal (pulegone) is not recommended - while foods and herbs that cause 'breakthrough bleeding' are the emmenagogues and include herbs like Motherwort (leonurus) in sufficient doses.

Some women report strong peturbations from evening primrose oil- individual sensitivities vary widely.

Red clover can be quite high in oestrogens.Plants make hormone mimics to regualte fertility in their insect herbivores, humans exploit this naturally.

For the boys there are coprinus mushrooms and cottonseed compunds (gossypol)

unfortunately these may cause irreversibl e depression of fertility in some males so not recomended for the young and thsoe who still plan to have more kids. Ive spoken to many men who jump at the thouht of no sperm by a herbal remedy!Infertility can be a major bonus to the sex life particularly to those

with 3 or more kids already and involved with a new and younger partner(s).

Another alternative is to practice the art of orgasm without ejaculation. Apparently it also conserves vital energy and i know of two older men who employ it, and can easily outlast the efforts of men 20 years their junior because of this tactic, having sex many times in a night and many times a week, and ejaculating maybe once or twice.

Something ill look into oneday i guess...I figure its the only way ill be able to keep up with a ravenous middleaged partner when the spring of youth finally starts to slow

[Auxin]

Yeah, I came across gossypol when I was researching natural anticancer drugs, I stoped researching that compound when I saw the permanent antifertility thing (being an organic chemist half my sperm are probably mutants, but I still want to try!)

Anyway heres a little Dr Duke stuff on gossypol:

Antifertility; 30 mg/kg (no babies)

Anaphrodisiac (no sex)

Cytotoxic (bad)

Hepatotoxic (=funky liver)

Mutagenic (mutants)

Paralytic (paralysis)

Spermicide; 30 mg/kg rats (kills rat sperm for you freaks out there )

Toxic (toxic:rolleyes

Tumorigenic (=tumors)

Not good medicine!

And heres a Dr Duke list of natural antifertility drugs (most of them ineffective and/or quite toxic):

ALOIN 62.5 mg/kg/day

ASIATICOSIDE

BETA-SITOSTEROL

BRAHMINOSIDE

CHALEPENSIN

CITRANTIN

DIALLYL-TRISULFIDE

EMBELIN 20-50 mg/kg

FRAXINELLONE

GENISTEIN

GOSSYPOL 30 mg/kg 30 mg/kg rats

HIPPADINE

KAEMPFEROL 250 mg/kg day/60 days/orl rat

MALVIDIN

OLEANOLIC-ACID

P-COUMARIC-ACID

PIPERINE 12.5 mg/kg

PLUMBAGIN

PODOPHYLLOTOXIN

SANTONIN 40 mg/kg/day

SOLASODINE

SOPHORICOSIDE

STIGMAST-5-ENE-3-BETA-7-ALPHA-DIOL

STIGMAST-5-ENE-3-BETA-7-BETA-DIOL

VASICINOL

VASICINONE

WOGONIN 10 mg/kg/day

ZOAPATANOL

[Dubius]

What about using a condom?

I know it is not as nice as free sex but you seem to want to use drugs to solve the problem of pregnancy rather than prevent it. Drugs kill? It that what you want them to do? By using drugs to abort you are raising a difficult issue. I am not Pro or anti abortion, I don't really know what side I take - but I know it makes me uncomfortable.

Perhaps you should be asking if there are drugs that prevent pregnancy rather than teminate it, or use a condom.

[Auxin]

I think jack was talking about drugs that prevent rather than terminate.

As for the condoms, don't some religions forbid their use? Sure that usually applies to all forms of birth control, but your partner would be unlikely to figure out that the daily cup of tea is really birth control, but the condom is kind of hard to hide.

[MrBumpy]

I heard blow up dolls come with inbuilt contraceptives

-bumpy

[Guest reville]

Drugs or herbs that bring on menstruation and cause failure to implant or early abortion are probably far more desirable to the female body than pumping it full of synthetic hormones every day for years.

Most of the information ive read is in a book i picked up from Florilegium put out by the CSIRO

called "Anti-fertility plants of the South Paciic"

Birth control is in no way a modern phenomenon, alot of pacific cultures ahve known and used a form of 'the pill' for a very long time. Women have many reasons to do this of course and i really think opposition to it has its causes in politics rather than theological concerns. after all wht kind of divinity would object to contraception and yet allow chldbirth to be such a risky occupation?

Either way i think that the reason this isnt more widely publicised is probably that it comes under the heading of 'secret womens business' and (mostly male) anthropologists just havent been interested or invited to be told this kind of information.

Its likely that women in europe once knew about this too but probably in no small way this was just part of the destruction of prechristian europe. The power of men over women is much to do with control over their reproductive rights.Whoever controls thius controls the flow of property rights and equity intergenerationally and holds the gretaest political power.

Hidden till marriage, the value of virginity, chastity, the social stigma placed on prostitutes and single mothers or promiscuity in general,Differential rights and values ascribed to male and female offspring,the hypocritical endorsement of polygamy and disallowance of polyandry, religious intolerance of contraceptives and abortion, 'invisibility' of female homosexual relationships in most cultures.These are all ways that have and are used to enforce a male dominated control on fertility.

The herbal knowledge of 'witches' would have freed women to have as many partners as they wanted, and only get pregnant to who they wanted to, and only have as many children as they wanted to and whn they wanted too, perhaps even by means we dont know there were ways to determine or influence the sex of the child.

I was listening to the radio the otherday and a writer was talking about her new book which basically rewrites the arthurian legends from the perspective of the women of the story (who have been damsels and backdrops in the old stories).She also based it upon her own research into the place of women and customs of the prechristian era, one of the interesting customs that puts alot into place is the ability of noble women to offer their champions 'Thigh friendship' So all those bold knights and jousting was really an annual event to determine the 'ladies favourite' and probably has its roots in ancient celtic fertility festivals. I cant imagine this kind of thing going on without birth control, after all they would still have had an obligation to provide an heir to their husbands.

This kind of control gives new meaning to ' the hand that rocks the cradle 'and must have been extremely threatening to a patriarchal Roman catholic society - where women were dutiful wives and lacked this kind of political power.

Anyway my opinion is that fertility is either mens business or womens business and though its nice to discuss it in a partnership, I dont believe anyone else , even the rights of the unborn have any competing claim to your own reproductive sovereignty. Its just one way of looking at it.

I would welcome any changes to reinstate a more liberal ideology towards fertility and sexuality that would depolarise the way our society looks at this issue.

The idea of the man being the breadwinner and head of the house is something of an illusion. Most domestic work and decisions (especially regarding children) are done by women and without the knowledge of men to a large degree.

If women yielded a bit more recognisable power of veto, men might have to lift their game to ensure they remain desirable to their mate - to understand theoir mate better

and women also with a beter understanding of their power might be a little more sexually assertive as they really get the hang of it, shedding what inhibitions they might have been brought up on.

I dont know about you but this all sounds good to me Ive always liked a challenge - in fact relationships go stale when its all a 'sure thing', and youve just got to love a girl who knows what she wants

Well thats my rant , but its all really about politics and contraception anyway so i guess its on topic.

[shroomy]

i did here a of a method on the radio the other day stating that a small sponge soaked in a little lemmon juice and than inserted by the female before sex is almost a foolproof method and it apparantly also greatly reduces the risk of the bum flu. this method has apparantly been used over the ages. (disclamer- its only somthing i heard on the radio jjj i think)

[Adrian]

I believe Solanum aviculare- Kangaroo Apple, is cultivated overseas for the production of steroids used in contraceptive pills.

I've also seen references to it being used natively for similar reasons.

There should be some information floating around the web somewhere.

eh, I found something.

From: http://www.wellbeing.com.au/81/pages/medicineland.htm

Native hormones worldwide

Similar to the Dioscorea yams, Solanum species (from the same family as the potato and the tomato) can be used in steroid production. This is via a precursor chemical called solasodine, which is closely related to diosgenin. The wild herb, kangaroo apple (Solanum aviculare and S.lanciniatum) was imported into Europe for cultivation and now forms the basis of the successful Eastern European contraceptive business. Australia continues to import contraceptive pills, even though the raw materials are readily available locally.

It is possible for Australia to supply solasodine commercially to overseas companies, however the attempt has failed because of management problems. There are many native Solanum species with the potential to provide solasodine, including S.aviculare, S.capsiciformis, S.linearifolium, S.similie, S.symonii and S.vescum. Indeed, they have other medicinal possibilities. The use of Solanum for treating skin cancers, although controversial, is worth continued clinical evaluation, as are proposals for solasodine use in providing new biochemical delivery methods for anti-cancer drugs.

[Guest mandragora]

I don't really see the difference between synthetic or natural drugs. Whatever you take it makes your body doing something unnatural.

About the idea not to be able to hide a condom, but the tea would be less obviously... Nevertheless the woman should be informed what is going on and what she has to take. I don't think women like to be tricked.

I know it sounds a little bit too emancipated, but why is it always men who talk about womens contraceptions or non contraceptions?

In this days and as a woman I am quite shure that I have to cope with the results, which is mostly a baby. So I look for myself for a contraception which is suitable for me. If my partner helps me with that than this is nice. But by the end of the day it is me who is caring about this, because it effects me the most.

And why not searching for a little nice plant who makes the sperms infertile for a little while, would be nice for a change.

And the pill for the man is out there.

[Jack]

Well I have a lot of things to look into now, thanks for all the response.

I would NEVER give my partner anything without her knowing what she is taking and the possible effects and side effects.

She actually asked me to see if I could find some kind of alternative the the pill which she does not use, I dont use condoms, so we have just been working around it.

I would be interested in somthing that would make me infertile in the short term, but have worries in the long term as we want to have another child.

[Guest mandragora]

Sorry for my harsh answer, I should have known, but...

For the infertile thing, also women have to wait for nearly one year until they can get pregnant again, but okay at least it is quite shure they will.

Have you ever heard about a little instrument called "persona", they sell it in germany, maybe here as well? A little thing a woman holds in her urine and then it showes green or red for the day.

An other oppurtunity is the IUD, ever thought about it? Some doctor do it with narcotics, you sleep for some minutes, have it in you and you can have sex to 3 years without thinking about it. Okay it is not a natural thing, but better than the pill. and by the end of the day birth control is not so natural, exept for humans who want to control nature - actually me too

With the whole taking things, also if it is a juice you have prepared for yourself, you take something to interfere into your normal cycle. And temp reading is actually highly uncompfy and I made the experience, never acurate. Drink a beer, go an hour too late into bed or sleep in-gone.

Don't know what to advice you there, but at least I am highly reliefed that you don't give anything to your partner without letting her know...

I think in that the decision is really with the woman, and a woman who is hearing to her body, can tell what she want to take or do.

[sierra]

some animals know instinctively what plants to eat so as not to fall pregnant.

i've yet to come across whole and practical information on this subject, "A Barefoot Doctor's Manual" has some simple herbal formulas listed, don't have the book unfortunately.

[Guest reville]

Originally posted by mandragora:

I don't really see the difference between synthetic or natural drugs.

... Nevertheless the woman should be informed what is going on and what she has to take. I don't think women like to be tricked.

And the pill for the man is out there.

There isnt always a difference. But sometimes the drugs we take are not naturally ocurring in nature, and so sometimes not even bacteria are able to break them down so they accumulate in the environment. The pill is a lot safer than it used to be, for a start the dosage has reduced greatly since it was introduced and the method of delivery has improved too.

Even now the pill is asociated with higher levels of risk especially when in conjunction with other risky behaviours like smoking.

My point is that the chronic (every day, day in day out ) use of these exogenous hormones is something i would not be willing to do if it was presented to me as an option.

re administering drugs to an unknown recipeient. I was not in any way recommending that anyone feed anything to anyone else without their consent. Im not sure if i made that clear

re male pill

I think this would be an excellend 'theoretical' breakthrough. however there are more problems in doing this than in the female reproductive tract.

To be efficient any pill would have to suppress sperm growth by 100%, in a way sterilising the male who nauturally churns out millions of sperm a day, every day, from puberty till advanced old age.

The cells that make sperm would have to be forced into an unnatural stasis to achieve the same effect that the female system exists in as a natural state.

While men produce sperm continuously, i asume youd be aware that every woman is born wth all the eggs she will ever need, sitting in stasis for the whole of her reproductive life, being matured and released one by one.

Women als naturally regulate and even cease their fertility cycles during extraordinary periods such as stress, famine and also the cycles are influenced during weaning the child due to extra production of progesterone which acts as natural contraceptive.

the male system has no such simple controls built in with which to target.

Male fertility is determined by a threshold number of active sperm per mL or spermcount.

Once they are too low or arent active enough the probability of successful fertilisation drops beyond practical limits, though it can still happen.

If you totally inhibit the sperm producing cells there is the real danger they will not come back at all, and if they do they will be permanently depressed leading to statistical sterility.

so yes thyre working on it - but dont expect miracles and after the horror stories of the original female pill -i certainly wouldnt be taking it anywayuntil the long term studies came out.

Besides whoe going to trust a man that says

'No worries luv, im on the pill'

[Guest reville]

Originally posted by mandragora:

An other oppurtunity is the IUD, ever thought about it?

I think in that the decision is really with the woman, and a woman who is hearing to her body, can tell what she want to take or do.

IUD's can actually be quite dangerous and ethical doctors, particularly those who specialise in giving reproductive advice like at youth clinics are very reluctant in using IUD's in women who havent already had children due to the risk of complications.

My mother had one in her youth and even though she complained of pain the doctor dismissed it. On second opinion it was found to have been improperly insrted and had caised damage , luckily not significant or i wouldnt have been here or my 3 siblings.

More recently my girlfriend enquired and was given the above advice. the doctor would not recommend or prescribe one as she has not had chidren yet and the risk is too significant.

there are progesterone based contraceptives but these too are controversial, the most famous . 'Depo provera' has been considered too risky in many developed countries and is no longer used, it is being used in india but with some controversy and resistance by health advocates. Amazingly it is still used here! my girlfriend used it for a while but the sideaffects were unacceptable.

Other female friends have implants in their arms or backsides with a slow release contraceptive which i think lasts several years and can be removed at any time , 'implanon'? which i believe is also progesterone based.

The operation is not comfortable at all.

its a total minefield of choices.

ive been thinking about your comments on female choice and ultimate responsibility regarding contraception and conception.

I guess my own, and perhaps others interest in contraception comes from the fact that these days there is full legal support for the mother in getting child support whether the man wanted the child or not, so it really has become an issue for men too.And you cant deny it like they used to cos they have DNA testing to prove it.

Of course there is a moral side too, i imagine and hope that ignoring any child you create is bad bad karma. Every child deserves a chance.

My own experience has been that alot of women dont have your liberal views. They will

(especially those small town ones)use getting pregnant as a means to tie down the man they want, and if it doesnt work , they can and often do use the child as leverage to always keep themselves no more than arms length from that guy , even if its turned sour and the just want to make life hell.And its a lose/lose situation to be in. You have to pay child support but cant definitely have much say in raising your child, you desperately want to be rid of this person from your life, but still have an obligation and probably a desire to care for your child. So you're stuck in a hopeless vice.

I've been very lucky but some of my friends haven't.

[Auxin]

For guys:

Sperm bank deposits followed by vasectomy (sp?). Even if the 'spermcicles' are destroyed, vasectomies can usually be reversed cant they?

[waterdragon]

what is all this talk of contraception? the best bet for women is still the common asprin, just before sex place it between the knees and leave it there. safe and foolproof.

[This message has been edited by waterdragon (edited 01 November 2002).]

[Guest mandragora]

l

Edited April 17, 2007 by mandragora

[theobromos]

I believe there was a recipe from ancient Egypt that would work. But placing crocodile dung inside orifices may be less popular nowadays.