Gollum Posted September 10, 2012 Just a heads up for anyone trading Datura or Brugmansia seeds /cuttings in the seed/plant exchange and sending to Tasmania. I stupidly sent some seeds away last week before checking local quarantine laws. Big mistake. The person i sent them to never got them so i checked the DPI website and found this in relation to Datura- 4. Importation of declared weed: (1) A person must not import or allow to be imported into Tasmania any datura. It is an offence against section 57(1) of the Act to fail to comply with this prohibition. A person found committing that offence may incur an infringement fine of 4 penalty units. A person convicted in court of that offence may be liable to a fine not exceeding 50 penalty units. The Secretary may exempt a person from this prohibition under section 60 of the Act. Actions to assist compliance in this matter could include but are not limited to the following: Persons travelling to Tasmania, in particular from areas infested with datura, such as many parts of mainland Australia, should conduct thorough searches for the presence of the plant and apply appropriate hygiene measures, such as clothing, vehicle, machinery and baggage inspection and cleaning. Questions or concerns about weed hygiene issues should be directed to Quarantine Tasmania personnel before or directly upon disembarkation in Tasmania. Persons importing ornamental plants to Tasmania should ensure their stock does not include datura. Persons importing items to Tasmania that may contain datura (e.g. bird seed) should have these checked for the presence of the plant. This can be arranged through Quarantine Tasmania. It was a foolish mistake on my behalf so i just wanted to bring it up so no one makes the same error i did. This is more for the newer members as im sure most of the more experienced traders and growers already now about these laws. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixSon Posted September 10, 2012 Did you have them labeled? Wonder how unlabeded seeds would of faired.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stillman Posted September 10, 2012 What are the laws in other states regarding these plants? You don't see them at nurseries much? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stillman Posted September 10, 2012 I wonder how they new there were seeds in the letter? Thats unlucky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gollum Posted September 10, 2012 Did you have them labeled? Wonder how unlabeded seeds would of faired.. Yeah i had them labelled. Didn't think i had anything to hide. Really should have done my homework before sending. Im a bit cheesed off with myself right now. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gollum Posted September 10, 2012 We use to sell both Datura and Brugmansia at our nursery on the goldie, sold heaps. @ Stillman, I had the seeds wrapped in a bit of thin bubble wrap to protect them from being crushed. The letter was quite thick. Maybe that caught their attention. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quarterflesh Posted September 10, 2012 Are you sure the letter has'nt just gone missing. Im sure someone would have contacted the person who it was going to or if you left a return address then you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stillman Posted September 10, 2012 I've seen Brugs at Nurseries but never Datura, I just figured there was some duty or care law. Nanny state shit that has helped destroy nurseries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoOnThen Posted September 10, 2012 I haven't checked but I would think Datura would be a declared weed in most states as it is in WA but Brugs are no worries. I would also think that the letter has gone missing rather than being confiscated. There is one way to find out just send another lot of unlabelled seeds. I have found by thinking positive thoughts and also making sure the package or envelope don't scream look at me I have plants or seeds inside works ( it has for me over the past four years). Cheers Got 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterboy 2.0 Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) I can tell you IF they were confiscated the receiver would have received a lovely green proforma slip from Tasmanian Quarantine... It is highly unlikely they would be confiscated, unless the letter looks like a dogs breakfast. EDIT - you will also note it is the "importer" that will get the arse kicking if it deemed warranted under the Weed Management Act..... Edited September 10, 2012 by waterboy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whitewind Posted September 10, 2012 I hate environmental weeds but it drives me nuts when it conflicts with what I want to grow, especially when I know I am particularly careful about what I do grow. Datura, IMHO, isn't that bad as an environmental weed but it can be a problem in fodder or animal paddocks where it can cause injury to animals (or impact profit being the biggest concern). I have thought about trying to import a few funky things from the US but stopped short when they aren't on AQIS approved list - don't want to cross them, but frequently I think these things are on the list because they are of particular interest to pharmaceutical corporations - Ginseng is one off the top of my head. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obtuse Posted September 10, 2012 Through personal experience with tas quarantine, they will not only send you a letter, but if they can they will telephone you for a chat and confirm you are now aware of the necessary documents you need to read and the appropriate documentation required for any import. But you are given the choice regarding the fate of the item they have confiscated, either to have the item treated, returned or destroyed. As a first time you get a warning, after that its a big fine. If there is a return address they will also contact the sender and potentially fine them as well. Datura, is a declared weed in most states, therefore in whichever states it has been declared (probably all states i suspect) you can potentially be fined for it. Before trading with anyone its a good idea to know where you are sending your item too, and potentially protecting your trader and yourself from greif with a quick google search of the respective states quarantine regulations and weeds lists. I think as far as the letter of the law is concerned, brugmansia is not an issue, as it is only datura that has declared weed status. Brugmansia being a different genus does not far under the umbrella. I suspect in this case the letter has been lost, mail softing machines are known to rip the crap out of letters, or pocketed by a dodgy postal workers - that happens a lot in tasmania is seems (through personal experience). If tas quarantine had picked up the letter, a notice would have arrived from them, or phonecall. I think in most cases seeds are not the issue, what is is live plants, but in particular its dirt- it wasnt the plant material i got pulled up on, it was that the sender hadnt removed the dirt and it was falling out the edges of the box in large clumps. If you do happen to send a cutting, clean the roots thoroughly. Cheers, Obtuse. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gollum Posted September 10, 2012 Just had a Pm from the member i sent the seeds to. There has been some miscommunication. They did receive the seeds after all. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stillman Posted September 10, 2012 Well thats good that they got their seeds, on th etopic of Datura is it all species on the weed list? What about metel var. fastuosa I thought they may have slipped by being very ornamental but I guess if all Datura are on the list. If it quacks like a duck lol. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dizzyanarchist Posted September 10, 2012 im surprised its not a highly illegal plant yet i guess brugmansia the old melbourne houseplant thing has a play in it. i tend to think everyone who grows this plant should know every possible danger about it. because i see them go missing all over the place and keep thinking oh no another one like me gonna wind up having a heart attack somewhere. sorry they are beautiful plants but certain measures should be taken to make sure they are not grown in the public eye while theres this insightful thing called the internet. btw i got a obsession with the trumpet flowers of datura i wish there was a non poisonous non stinky one so i could grow it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
∂an Posted September 10, 2012 one of the first things I saw after getting off the ferry in tas was a massive brugmansia tree leaning over a locals front yard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whitewind Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) Brug is bit different because it needs 2 individual clones to produce seed, most plants outside of nurseries seem to be clones of specific varieties. I have seen Brug go a bit wild in the bush, once you have some seeds produced all the offspring will be able to cross pollinate each other. I think it is considered a weed in some localities, but Datura is much more prolific and the seeds remain dormant in the ground for a few years and can easily wash down creeks as well. im surprised its not a highly illegal plant yet i guess brugmansia the old melbourne houseplant thing has a play in it. i tend to think everyone who grows this plant should know every possible danger about it. because i see them go missing all over the place and keep thinking oh no another one like me gonna wind up having a heart attack somewhere. sorry they are beautiful plants but certain measures should be taken to make sure they are not grown in the public eye while theres this insightful thing called the internet. btw i got a obsession with the trumpet flowers of datura i wish there was a non poisonous non stinky one so i could grow it I don't agree, there are plenty of poisonous plants out there which cause more poisonings that Brug, Daphne odora is one of them, grown for it's amazing scent. Also, if you think about it, alcohol causes many many deaths and injuries yet it's freely available to anyone over 18, sometimes under. Most people grow Brug because the flower and scent is amazing, nothing more. Your logic, and the logic of the war on drugs as a whole, suggests that people should be banned from doing anything that make cause them harm - which means that cars would be banned to ensure that no-one ever gets hurt, and that people should stay inside so they never get skin cancer, and that hot water should never be heated above 50 degrees C so that no-one ever burns themselves. To say nothing of toxic chemical applications which are widespread throughout the horticultural industry. Know what you are dealing with, and minimise the harm. Edited September 10, 2012 by whitewind 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gollum Posted September 10, 2012 Oleander is another dangerous one i believe. Ive heard a story about a guy on the tweed coast that broke off a stem of Oleander to stir his cup of tea and was poisoned. Not sure if this an urban myth, but have heard it from a couple of different people. When we sold Daturas and Brugs at the nursery we had 2 tags on each plant, one, a disclaimer and the other a warning about the toxicity of the plant. We had lots of people telling us that we should not be selling them. But i believe if you are a responsible grower you take as many precautions as you can to make sure the plant is safe. e.g. dont plant it next to your fence where young children play, and inform anyone with children that come to your house that it is a toxic plant and should have care taken around it. We should educate people about these plants to admire their beauty, not just scare them off. "Know what you are dealing with, and minimise the harm." Totally agree Whitewind. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2Deep2Handle Posted September 11, 2012 lol one of my neighbours(about 3 years ago, coincidentally as i was just getting into ethnobotany) chopped down a bunch of oleanders, and decided to burn it in their household fireplace! Low and behold 1 hour after having the acrid smell waft into my own nose, I was greeted by the whirling of 2 ambulance sirens to take the 4 members of the family away. I thought Oleander was well known as a no go to burn and ingest, and even touch(causes rashes), but apparently there are still naive people around. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dizzyanarchist Posted September 11, 2012 Brug is bit different because it needs 2 individual clones to produce seed, most plants outside of nurseries seem to be clones of specific varieties. I have seen Brug go a bit wild in the bush, once you have some seeds produced all the offspring will be able to cross pollinate each other. I think it is considered a weed in some localities, but Datura is much more prolific and the seeds remain dormant in the ground for a few years and can easily wash down creeks as well. I don't agree, there are plenty of poisonous plants out there which cause more poisonings that Brug, Daphne odora is one of them, grown for it's amazing scent. Also, if you think about it, alcohol causes many many deaths and injuries yet it's freely available to anyone over 18, sometimes under. Most people grow Brug because the flower and scent is amazing, nothing more. Your logic, and the logic of the war on drugs as a whole, suggests that people should be banned from doing anything that make cause them harm - which means that cars would be banned to ensure that no-one ever gets hurt, and that people should stay inside so they never get skin cancer, and that hot water should never be heated above 50 degrees C so that no-one ever burns themselves. To say nothing of toxic chemical applications which are widespread throughout the horticultural industry. Know what you are dealing with, and minimise the harm. no what i just think plants like these and Alcohol aren't ilegal and pot is. once in every so often ull get a doctor thats heard about it from somewhere. ive said before and i say it again id grow one in some kinda airtight box so i cant smell the thing and put it out the back so kids cant get to it. but i dont know if i can really find the time and effort or cash to do it. allways got something else to do and throw money in that dont make me go placebo delirious each time i get a good woft of one in my face im all for fun drugs but this is not one and all these storys get out to cause kids to be interested in ripping em up and making a deadly mash like i stupidly did do u sort of get what im gettin at Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whitewind Posted September 11, 2012 no what i just think plants like these and Alcohol aren't ilegal and pot is. once in every so often ull get a doctor thats heard about it from somewhere. ive said before and i say it again id grow one in some kinda airtight box so i cant smell the thing and put it out the back so kids cant get to it. but i dont know if i can really find the time and effort or cash to do it. allways got something else to do and throw money in that dont make me go placebo delirious each time i get a good woft of one in my face im all for fun drugs but this is not one and all these storys get out to cause kids to be interested in ripping em up and making a deadly mash like i stupidly did do u sort of get what im gettin at I sort of do mate, I understand how emotional you get when something really strongly impacts your life. I'm also in favour of banning certain things myself; the Big Three addictions that are ruining our society: oil, sugar and TV, but I am kind of aware that it's impractical to do a complete ban and sometimes these things can have useful applications above and beyond their general use - just like Datura and Brugmansia and all other psychotropic plants. I only have one question to ask; if you had known about the dangers of Datura beforehand, would you have used it, or, if you did know about the dangers beforehand, why did you go ahead and do it? Don't you think that if ALL the information on Datura use had been available where you looked for it your attitude towards it would be different? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dizzyanarchist Posted September 11, 2012 i went off a old hippys dosing i was silly enough to beleive him but went through a few other reports that they must have got a fairly inactive plants for dosing see my thing is i have to try everything i dont seem to say no on first times like to explore different substances some ppl i knew sounded legit but a bit far out on getting their info actualy correct so i smashed down 1 tea one weekend done nothing same tea next weekend nearly killed me i reckon if i had all the knowledge i had now on the plant i wouldn't have taken it and now i hit everything with a fine tooth come and make sure im aware of the dangers in the drug/substance im gonna take but i had read reports talked to mates and done all i knew to keep my self safe and it seemed to work till Datura shat on it now i go through the forums and try to find all the info i can but theres still that scare there am i gonna fuck the dosing again or somethin i beleive all plants/walks of life should be given a fair go but everyone should know their facts about them and know their facts are straight. so im not saying anything should be illegal this and that just ppl really need to know about these things even if a poisonous plant list is pumped into kids heads when they get into high school 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterboy 2.0 Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) Reckless datura consumption by youth has been going on for a long time....and will no doubt continue to go on. And I am sorry to say it but even when educated... Shit, eat a daffodil bulb and you will know all about poisonous plants. If you look into it there are a lot of poisonous plants common to the garden..... Not everyone is aware of poisonous plants (or fungi ) and so many hospital admissions of children occur every year. Edited September 11, 2012 by waterboy 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whitewind Posted September 11, 2012 ^^^ Absolutely, Waterboy! A surprisingly large number of people die from wild-collected fungi every year, it would be difficult to ban wild fungi from growing, and a lot of people safely wild harvest fungi every year and gain great pleasure from doing so. It's much better to teach everyone the dangers of wild fungi rather than impose an unwanted ban that would frequently be ignored, often with much more catastrophic consequences than an openly discussed and well-understood subject. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dizzyanarchist Posted September 11, 2012 i guess what im saying is there hadn't been much scheduling for these and im not aloud to grow pot plants or poppy plants, Salvia for ornamental purposes in my back yard id grow a sanguinea for deep personal ornamental issues but not while i have dogs in the back yard and kids ready to rip it in the neighborhood if i put it in the front yard and even though they stole my tree id still feel sorry for em and i sure aint fuck having one in the house and kids would probably spot it miles away in the backyard with brugmansias anyway probably end up with one over the fence and rippin my garden. hence i knew daffodils where poisonous never thought of eating one i guess it was the ppl telling me it was poisonous a few times as a kid sat in the head instead of ppl saying yeh its a full on hallucinogen that creates realistic visions its a what u do is put etc amounts of flowers in and cook a tea or eat a couple pods if u can find them then 1 in 4 of them saying its poisonous if we where to respect it like the old native american tribes that treated it like a sorcerer then there might be a good future for datura but the way how mankind is going i dont see that happening mushys i never had a problem with picking because ive allways treated them with caution and identified them being scared of the infamous death caps, you see in the paper some dude hospitalized over picking a bad mushroom but u dont see 2 admited to icu 1 comatised nearly dieing from a heart attack and both nearly had their throats closed over.. sure u have ones like scolopalamine being the theifs drug but they dont refer to datura and i go in to doctors pretty much all the time when i need to mention im still gettin residual effects from datura overdose they basicly got no idea until i start slinging words like hyoscine atropine that they may tick on to it i could go on about this for ages but im not saying ban plants certain plants by all means grow em but why have such great usefull plants scheduled to the shit house and have deliriants legal like datura and alcohol and i certainly aint touching those travel calm pills for travel sickness in a billion years and then i been on sites that said stuff like mandrake is the bomb and dont worry bout how much u smoke cuz u cant overdose and its legal as i said i can go on for ages but im just gonna stop here before this little conflict gos on for ages and im not saying put a 'ban' on anything i was just saying im surprised its not allready and i just like using brug as a good example because they stick out like dog balls 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
