wtb psycho0 seeds

[Evil Genius]

There actually is one but not within this community. In germany, the echinopsis growers are very organised and have created some kind of general rules for naming a plant. There is a database with all the names including pictures of the flowers and all this and plants can only be named if the plant has flowered at least twice because first flower can substantially be diffrent to later ones. Also, there needs to be a complete description of the plant to name it and i think its a pretty good thing that we should do here too to make sure, its actually possible to recognize and differentiate the named plants from each other. Lets say someone names a bridgesii that is absolutely typical for a bridgesii, it will be pretty hard to differentiate between other seedgrown bridgesii´s. Psycho0 is a very unique specimen and so are rosei, yowie,etc for example. But people should make sure to only name plants that definately have very unique traits so it deserves a name. Also, people should actually make a short description about the plant and mention the reason it should get a name.

I propose that we create a thread with all named plants. Only one post per plant which includes a description and pictures to make sure everyone can recognize em. No small talk in the thread, only a short description including stories about the origin or the reasons you wanna name the plant. The person who names the plant writes a small standardised description. I wanna point out that if we do that, i dont want people to make themselves a lot of work with the description. We dont need the typical botanical descriptions here as only few people would actually know all the botanical words anyway. This is rather to be seen as a database for all named clones within the community and i want the biggest part of the thread to be pics because they say the most. But just write a few lines to give people a short idea about how they can recognize the plant when they see it somewhere.

What do you guys think?

Edited September 4, 2012 by Evil Genius

[Alienteaparty]

I propose that we create a thread with all named plants. Only one post per plant which includes a description and pictures to make sure everyone can recognize em. No small talk in the thread, only a short description including stories about the origin or the reasons you wanna name the plant. The person who names the plant writes a small standardised description. I wanna point out that if we do that, i dont want people to make themselves a lot of work with the description. We dont need the typical botanical descriptions here as only few people would actually know all the botanical words anyway. This is rather to be seen as a database for all named clones within the community and i want the biggest part of the thread to be pics because they say the most. But just write a few lines to give people a short idea about how they can recognize the plant when they see it somewhere.

 

I second that E G

Sounds like a great idea.

[Jox]

I think thats a great idea, I just read through a bit of the thread Moses put up "Origin story's" & this kind of information is gold! It would be sad to lose this information.

[qualia]

yep! to make it easy have like a template for the description, like spine length/colour, skin, and etc.

[Evil Genius]

Alright guys, i like the idea too and will create a thread today or in the next days once im done writing the template. Will call it "Named Clones Database" or something like that and pinn it on top of the cactus forum.

[naja naja]

Thanks naja naja,

But I was just wondering is there an authority for naming these, looks like there no set rules, its good to see people naming clones after respected good people. But it sad to think theirs no set structure to naming clones & anyone can just name a unique plant as a new clone.

 

But thats exactly wat it is done for

If u wanted to be all boring about it, u could call them TP#000139, to keep track of each individual clone. Infact, thats why u will see KK or SS with a number following. KK standing for Karl Knize and SS for Sacred succulents. It's basically a record keeping system and names are a bit more fun than numbers IMO.

and I didn't mean u jox causing offence, I wasn't quoting you.

Peace

Edited September 4, 2012 by naja naja

[Stillman]

naja I said " I've come to the conclusion clone names are a bit of a scam not necesarily perpetrated by the founders of the clones but profiteers after the fact."

I am fully aware of why Psycho0 is called psycho0 I've done my research and I think that is a very beautiful thing , note what I said I don't believe the naming of clones to be a scam everything needs an origin, the profiteering from the progeny is questionable part.

[shruman]

"Shruman I here you, and please note that my comments where not directed at you or any other members here on this forum."

Yeah no worries I did'nt realy think they were, but it is something I am passionate about even if I do have somewhat of a vested interest.

"note what I said I don't believe the naming of clones to be a scam everything needs an origin, the profiteering from the progeny is questionable part"

What do you mean by profiteering?, by profiteering I take it to mean you think someone(s) are making a profit in an unethical way?, what do you think is unethical?

I realy do'nt understand, you think the origin is important but not when it comes to seeds? what exactly is unethical about providing the name of the parent(s) of the seeds?

"My point was is there any correlation that known clone name cacti produce a high percentage of "quality" seedlings?"

Known clone names will produce a higher percentage of "quality" seedlings if the known clones are known to have traits that you regard as "quality" compared to progeny of an unkown source. Surely you know something about genetics?, genes are inherited from their parents, this is the whole basis of selective breeding. You choose parents with traits that you find desireable then you choose their desirable progeny to breed & repeat. Mendel proved this 250 yrs ago.

"and if the seeds are more expensive because they have a clone name and yet produce a similar quality offspring as unnamed plants then I would call that a scam."

Thats an awful lot of "if"'s for someone that has apparently come to a conclusion. But even if you were able to prove those if's would that mean the price is unethical & therefore a scam?, If someone is paying cents an hour for a 3rd world child to get you your cheap unknown seeds, you would only be concerend with the price to you?, theres a whole host of ethical questions I would hope people would ask before they got to the question of price but sadly I understand that in todays consumer based world price is the bottom line for many people.

Like the clones database EG, just hope people will contribute.

Edited September 5, 2012 by shruman

[shruman]

"On that note, naming clones.

Are these 'clones' named by an authority off sum kind?

Who names clones & what make them legit?

I would love to know how this works. Can I just do an open pollination on my trichos & name the funky/weird looking one of seedling Tricho joxinormous?"

Yeah I'm not so sure i even like that whole idea of an authority. General consensus has worked pretty well so far, sure you can name your little seedling but it does'nt real mean much to anyone else (besides your mum ;P) until you have grown it out & propagated it & other people are also growing it & even more they want to talk about it & hence need to call it something to make it distinct from all the other plants they like to yammer on about... yeah?...

[Stillman]

Yeah I here you and I do not want you to think I was having a go at you, because I really wasn't. I do know a little a bout genetics, I understand the nature of line breeding and inbreeding. I don't know enough about trichocereus genetics to really have a definitive yes you can produce a "better quality" by pollinating to cacti with excellent traits.

Out of a fruit pod you may get what 1000 seeds? Maybe more maybe less. I'd like to do an experiment, (maybe I am with the seeds I am growing unwittingly) Mother plant has long spines father plant has short If you grow all 1000 seeds out what will the progeny come out as and will subsequent seed pods produce the same progeny? Unlikely or absolutely I don't know? But from my work with line breeding plants and animals for certain traits putting two "quality" plants or animals together doesn't alway produce 100% nice progeny. Often especially when chasing particular traits it produces defective genes. Now specifically to Trichocereus I really can't say 100% but after reading some of M S Smiths stuff I'd tend to think that the trichocereus gene pool is still pretty big and it would take considerable line breeding to produce consistent plants from from hybridising two "different" trichocereus, maybe at the f4 or f5 stage would you see uniform development and it would still most likely be unlike the original clone.

From those 1000 seed from that seed pod, there may (or will?) be plants with the traits you bred for, what that percentage is I don't know. Has anyone grown out 1000 Psycho0 OP seeds? I'm growing out about 100 And they look nothing like psycho0 but I am not sure what they were crossed over however if they had been crossed over a bridgesii then I think the results would be "truer to form" I'll keep you posted.

Guys don't take this as a wind up or an attack, I truely am interested in this and an growing bulk seedlings of Hybrids out too find new and unusual clones to propagate vegetatively.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Stillman