Next Top Model Judge Hospitalized after Twitter Bullying Leads to Suicide Attempt

[Yeti101]

Complicated topic. I had what I thought was a rough time in school, so I am mindful of how cruel, petty and idiotic people can be and I'm very sympathetic of all victims of bullying wherever and however it occurs.

I think is that it is wrong to treat certain things as being mutually exclusive. Some people that are bullied (cyber or otherwise) are really nice, some are really not and some are bullies themselves. Anyone can potentially be on the receiving end and that isn't right by any measure that I can see. It is important to remember that being a victim of bullying of any kind does not mean that someone is a good person or that they are somehow always in the right - these are simply two separate things.

The fact that Charlotte Dawson may have deserved some criticism in the past for her words and actions does not justify what some people said to her. But the fact that she had this happen to her should not render her immune from being held accountable in a manner appropriate to her position as a public figure. I think it a legitimate worry that now anyone who wants to criticize her in a reasonable way and on reasonable grounds is going to have a hard time as people will treat this as trolling, when in fact it isn't. Saying how she could have dealt with this better (in a sensitive manner), giving a feminist critique of her association with Next Top Model etc are not trolling nor are they blaming her for what people did to her. No solution to this should be allowed to have a disproportionately strong chilling effect on legitimate criticism. Would you want our current Minister for the Interwebs to be responsible for trying to fix this?

I do feel lucky that this forum has such a low tolerance for this sort of behaviour.

[whitewind]

And nor should you be. Charlotte Dawson is one of the Ibrahim family's close circle. When she keeps such fine company with the likes of John (alleged underworld honcho ), Sam (senior ballbreaker within the Notorious gang) and Fadi (all-round bad boy and recently accused of murder conspiracy), then she can expect a little bit of heat from time to time. Maybe if she kept the company of nice, wholesome boys-next-door, then her life would be smooth sailing. It is her alone that has chosen who she breaks bread with. It's what the media ISN'T telling you all about Charlotte's private life, and her predicament of connected associations conflicting with public figure status, that make for explosive headlines, those of which will not yet see the light of day.

No-one is innocent.

 

The only thing that tells me is that she spends a lot of time around uber-aggressive, semi-psychotic males who will undoubtedly use bullying tactics as well as physical aggression - IMHO she was probably trying to deal with this by outsourcing her psychological pain to somewhere she thought she could handle, and then discovered that people are capable of being utter arseholes whomever they might be. I expect the online bullying was merely the straw that broke the camels back. She is still a victim, kudos to her for trying to do something about it, even though it was perhaps naive and doomed to failure.

[Darklight]

but a mature adult in a public position that willingly put herself up as a target and then can't handle it

I dont think for a minute that she went to the fray with the express knowledge that she was making a target of herself. I do think she got involved believing that she was doing something right, and trying to use her position to change the behaviour of stupid people and make the world a bit easier for people copping the ugly behaviour, and good on her.

Geez T, you spent a couple of years feeding your own troll on similar grounds, and it took it's toll, and your motivations were similar and it took a long time to let it go. Surely you can see how it plays out? Shit escalates, you start out by making a personal stand on one topic and before you know it you're wasting energy responding to idiots on completely unrelated issues

Getting caught up in the troll cycle can be hard for some people, or maybe for everyone at some point, it's almost like we are hard wired to pursue things until some kind of conclusion. Unfortunately with trolls, the argument and hassle is it's own conclusion and you only win by not playing- and that's a learned response

For people with bi-polar, and maybe other types of depression, the border between coping brilliantly and being a total wreck is tissue thin. Learning to navigate that border is crucial to learning to deal with the illness. She may have felt she had all the reserves in the world and then for one short minute this failed and ended up in hospital. This in no way negates the fact that what she set out to do was a fine and brave thing. I hope she returns to the stage on this, even for one short brave "fuck you" to the trolls. That's all it would take for her to make a fine point

I haven't put my stance on this too well, my take on it is caught up with a whole pile of other stuff I can't get linear on, but it's a start

Edited September 2, 2012 by Darklight

[Darklight]

The only thing that tells me is that she spends a lot of time around

 

Who cares what it is she ( or anyone else does ) when not debating public issues? We're not America yet, we try to stick to the subject when we're debating public policy and don't require perfection of the speakers involved in the discussion.

It's why we accept our pollies are probably weird, have some kind of dodginess in their past, and up to something but are still vaguely reliable sources in some way on the subject at hand ( even if we think they're lying )

It's only in the US that the public expects that people involved in any issue will be of virgin birth, have never shaken hands with anyone the OP could have taken exception to now or in the future, and has always been faithful to their spouse. And let's keep it there

even though it was perhaps naive and doomed to failure.

Her methods of dealing with trolls may have been naive- this isn't a criticism, she made a single error, so what? But I reckon her stance was brave, especially given her depression- and let's face it, hearing from people who have been affected by this is incredibly important and *should* be considered crucial in public debate. And it's bravery like this which changes things. Drug law reform, much?

[DarkSpark]

so by your logic, if one person from AE comes here with the intent to cause a bit of a ruckus (happened last year i think), then they are all assholes.

i don't think you interpreted my post as it was meant. the place in question plays a big part in the culture of the internet, and one of the results of that is groups of bullies (probably kids mostly, probably get bullied themselves) uniting into superbullies.

everyone has to remember that the internet is a jungle.

 

Yes that is my logic, if people go anywhee or do anything purely to cause trouble then they are a *insert descriptive bad word*, albeit not a bastard as dogs aren't that adapt at typing, though they are about on par with intellectual thinking.

This is only if the person is clearly trying to stir the pot and not actually contribute a valid point. My post stated that if they are trying to "inflict pain on or belittle someone else" that they are horrible people. I am not talking about people who are just talking shit about the world in general, i am talking about people specifically attacking an individual person, without actually contributing anything to help them better themselves.

Talk along the lines of "shove your face in a toaster" or "hurry up and kill yourself already" isn't exactly the same as what was posted on these forums... The punishment may vary depending on the severity of the crime but yes they should all be punished, even if the guy flaming on here only got banned from the site this is still a punishment, yet the people behind the bullying here are going to get nothing except publicity.

Explain your post to me then as no matter how i look at it i cant find a different understanding. I agree with the part about them being a big part of the humor of the internet but this topic isn't funny, AT ALL.

edit: and without the anonymity that the site offers how many of these people actually say these things?

Edited September 2, 2012 by DarkSpark

[whitewind]

Who cares what it is she ( or anyone else does ) when not debating public issues? We're not America yet, we try to stick to the subject when we're debating public policy and don't require perfection of the speakers involved in the discussion.

 

Just trying to understand why she lost the plot and attempted suicide. For what it's worth, I am extremely sympathetic with her as I have spent time among bullies and understand why other forces may be at work other than simply internet trolls. Mind you, I have never experienced internet bullying so I don't know how devastating it might be or how seriously other people take such things.

Her methods of dealing with trolls may have been naive- this isn't a criticism, she made a single error, so what? But I reckon her stance was brave, especially given her depression- and let's face it, hearing from people who have been affected by this is incredibly important and *should* be considered crucial in public debate. And it's bravery like this which changes things. Drug law reform, much?

 

My post was sympathetic, actually, she may have been naive in trying to deal with it in this manner, but kudos to her for trying, as I said before.

[ballzac]

She tried to kill herself...

 

But she didn't try to kill herself, did she?

There are numerous possible motives for what she did. She could have been hurting so badly she wanted to do something dramatic to let the world know how hurt she was. Or maybe she wanted to gain widespread attention so something would be done to stop the bullying. Or maybe she was subconsciously getting off on the drama and wanted to do something to magnify it...

I have known three people who have committed suicide. All three chose hanging as their method. None of them called a friend prior to doing it (or tweeted about it). All chose a time when they knew they would not be found immediately and rescued. All three were 'successful' on their first attempt.

I have also known several people who have repeatedly 'attempted' suicide. All have used a less immediate method, like overdosing on pills. All have chosen times when they knew that there was a high chance they would be found before they died. All have called someone or otherwise notified people of their attempts. None have been 'successful', even after several attempts.

I'm not minimising the pain of people who do this. I would much rather that the three people I know who killed themselves had simply been crying out for help, and not done it properly. I also think it is extremely risky behaviour, and there is quite a high chance that people doing this sort of thing will die because it is very reckless behaviour. They are also the ones we can actually help, so I think every resource should be made available that can help them. But I like to call things what they are, and as far as I'm concerned, if you eat a bunch of pills and post about it on twitter, knowing that thousands of people will read about it, I find it hard to call it a suicide attempt.

[ballzac]

Yes that is my logic, if people go anywhee or do anything purely to cause trouble then they are a *insert descriptive bad word*, albeit not a bastard as dogs aren't that adapt at typing, though they are about on par with intellectual thinking.

 

You seem to be intent on misreading thunder's posts, lol

What he said is that some of them are arseholes, but that doesn't mean that all of them are arseholes. e.g. If some white people are racists, it doesn't mean that all white people are racists. If some childcare workers are paedophiles, it doesn't mean that all childcare workers are paedophiles. If some people who use LSD are serial killers or cult leaders, it doesn't mean all people who use LSD are serial killers or cult leaders...

[DarkSpark]

You seem to be intent on misreading thunder's posts, lol

What he said is that some of them are arseholes, but that doesn't mean that all of them are arseholes. e.g. If some white people are racists, it doesn't mean that all white people are racists. If some childcare workers are paedophiles, it doesn't mean that all childcare workers are paedophiles. If some people who use LSD are serial killers or cult leaders, it doesn't mean all people who use LSD are serial killers or cult leaders...

 

Some of the people on those sites(4chan etc) are not bastards, but everyone who participated in the direct abuse in this case, are. Why? For inflicting psychological trauma on a person who has done nothing to them.

Your whole spiel about people who do this do that makes no sense here either because, all who bully another person even if nothing bad comes of it ARE BASTARDS. I don't care if its because of some deep psychological trauma in their past who are they to take it out on someone else, who has contributed nothing to the pain they feel within themselves.

The point i am trying to make has nothing to do with her actions, essentially all they did was bring it into our attention what is going on.

[ballzac]

they're not all assholes its a melting pot. for what it's worth, they make a pretty big contribution to the internet's lol factor.

from wiki:

The humor of /b/'s many users, who refer to themselves as "/b/tards"...

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, Thunder, but it seems pretty clear to me that he is talking about /b/ users not all being arseholes, and is not saying that the bullies who attacked Charlotte Dawson are not all arseholes.

so by your logic, if one person from AE comes here with the intent to cause a bit of a ruckus (happened last year i think), then they are all assholes.

 

Yes that is my logic, if people go anywhee or do anything purely to cause trouble then they are a *insert descriptive bad word*, albeit not a bastard as dogs aren't that adapt at typing, though they are about on par with intellectual thinking.

 

Again, I think it's pretty clear that he is making the point that if one person from a group does something wrong, then they (i.e. the rest of the people from the group who are not responsible for the attack but just happen to be members of the same group) are not all responsible for it.

Your whole spiel about people who do this do that makes no sense here

 

Actually it does in light of the fact that I was simply trying to point out that you were misrepresenting TI's position on this. i.e. One person from AE comes here and causes trouble then all AE members are arseholes ..."yes that is my logic".

Some of the people on those sites(4chan etc) are not bastards, but everyone who participated in the direct abuse in this case, are.

 

This is exactly the point that I think Thunder was making that you initially said, twice, that you disagreed with, hence why I said I think you are misreading his posts.

[DarkSpark]

This is exactly the point that I think Thunder was making that you initially said, twice, that you disagreed with, hence why I said I think you are misreading his posts.

 

I had slightly misread the post relating to the AE user, my response was more meant to say that everyone who came onto the site to participate in the attack was a bastard didnt really notice the all in there, but i had never said ALL 4chan users were bastards although i may not have clearly stated that i was reffering to those involved in this case enough for your liking. TBH i think i may have had a bit much to smoke before replying to that post, and got so caught up in my immense hatred of bullies that i read what i wanted

There is a fine line between afunny meme and a full blown assault on an induvidual person by a whole network of fuckwits.

 

kind of gave that impression' date=' I can see that this may have needed the removal of the word [i']Whole[/i]. As clearly it isn't all of them doing it. I was referring to those involved, as that is what i THOUGHT this topic is/was about... Not 4chan on the whole and whether we think it is right or wrong.

I will rephrase my point as clearly as i possibly can.

Anyone who is going out of their way to hurt another person, or takes 'sport' in this act, is a bastard. I was trying to specifically aim my opinion at those who

see it as sport i think (for the lulz).

to make fun of other people. Which is a large part of why /b/ exists, no matter how much we try to deny it.

edit: fuck half my post disappeared ill rewrite it later.

Edited September 2, 2012 by DarkSpark

[ThunderIdeal]

okay so that's settled ballzac you should be writing formulas to discover the curled up non-cartesian dimensions i can see when i take acid, or something. i mean do what you want, but i see that as a more productive engagement of your splendid neurons.

[Darklight]

My post was sympathetic, actually, she may have been naive in trying to deal with it in this manner, but kudos to her for trying, as I said before.

 

Yep sorry, wasn't having a go at you