Thelema Posted February 18, 2005 quote: "this statement only appears to be an eprime statement"---true. ahh, OK. The first horn is done, since you say it is true, then it is false. I understand that you have no problem with this horn? That is, if it is true that it only appears to be an eprime statement, then it is false that it IS an eprime statement (because then it would be other than only appearing to be so). horn 2 is similar. If "this statement only appears to be an eprime statement" is FALSE, then the statement is wrong that it only appears to be in eprime,(that it is more than only appearing so) that is saying the statement actually IS an eprime statement rather than only appearing so. SO hence if the statement is FALSE, then it is actually true. fuck im getting that swimming feeling in my head. I hope thats clear enough for you. No dude, youre not simple minded! I love being able to talk to someone like this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted February 18, 2005 no thelema, i am simple, my head swims as soon as i started to read your statements. it's still swimming. please bear w/me as i try & make sense ov them "since you say it is true, then it is false" --yes the statement appears true, so to think the statement e-prime would be false, it truely "only appears" that way. "That is, if it is true that it only appears to be an eprime statement, then it is false that it IS an eprime statement (because then it would be other than only appearing to be so)." agreed i don't see a problem here. sorta see your point w/the second one but in a sense i have to agree w/the quote above "I do not advise embracing E-Prime (or anything else) as a recipe to cure all intellectual ills. In fact, neither do the champions of E-Prime, David Bourland and Ed Kellogg, whose articles suggest non-dogmatic men intent on promoting critical thinking. Of course, other and perhaps better methods also promote critical thinking( & since we seem to have taken e-prime for a good spin around the block anyone who knows any other methods --please start a post--NAB) . But I take the following stance: Anything that can shake an educated fool out of his intellectual torpor deserves promoting. I read somewhere that Martin Gardner had "debunked" E-Prime in the Skeptical Inquirer or the Skeptic, magazines that make great presents for high school kids. If Martin still lived, I would want to tell him: "Martin, mate, if it does more good than harm, don't shoot it down"." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Northern Gnome Posted April 5, 2005 nabraxas: ...("Is The Moon There When Nobody Looks?" Physics Today, April 1985. Berman says it isn't.) What if "God" is watching everything every moment, wouldn't that satisfy the requirement to keep the moon present when we aren't looking? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted April 6, 2005 QUOTE - from previous post * In the final chapter of the fifth edition, Rats and Men, Hayakawa describes an experiment by a Professor Maier of the University of Michigan, wherein neurosis is induced in rats. Rats are trained to jump towards one of two doors, where the left opens to show food behind it, and the right stays closed and bumps them into a net. Once they learn consistently to jump to the left door, the scientist started switching the doors randomly. Eventually, the rat "gives up and and refuses to jump at all. At this stage, Dr. Maier says "Many rats prefer to starve rather than make a choice."" Next, the rats are forced to make a choice, being driven to jump by an electric shock or equivalent. The rats "settle down to a specific reaction...which they continue to execute regardless of consequences." For instance, the rats will continue to jump left, even when the right door is left open with food clearly visible. They have lost the ability to learn, overloaded by an inability to cope. ---------------------------------------- It's interesting; Overload humans with shit and they start blowing themselves up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted April 6, 2005 Ha ha - E- Primes,.... finally I got the time to read through this topic. Interesting Reminds me of the Bahavagat Gita* Krischna consciousnes. It is more about a state of mind then it is about using the right wording. Not speaking in generilization or dualism is that possible????? I! is! be! - a short list of thoughts that just occured - Monotheism logic - rationale - creativity - fuzzy locic encephalon language centre making sense out of words All we do is discribe the world around us - we can never really put a finger on it! mystery will always remain. run with the rat pack or stay behind? Do we really have a choice?! heh,...... If you cant beat them - join them in other words,.. hmmm Deep thoughts have seem to have hit me again. find peace within yourself and smear some of it on the outside world here and there to patch things up! cheerios Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
