drugs v meditation

[nabraxas]

may as well keep going here. my friend started taking mdma in london in 1990. he took it for maybe 3 years & then stopped 'cus the e's were shite. a few years later in australia he took one ov the first mitsubishi's & it was very good. since then he's taken a few more over the years & some have been crap, some have been ok, but none have had the strength ov the mitsubishi or the pills in london. ie: 1 pill would have everyone totally 'luved up', grinding their teeth like mad, give at least one hour ov at points almost overwhelming rushes, MAKE you dance, give loads ov energy, an intense feeling for the music, often visuals ov an atomic nature & if taken at midnight it would be 7am before you knew it & you'd still be up.

ages ago, he read an article in the uk "the face" magazine- it was the cover article- an a4 shot ov a mitsubishi, with the banner "the pill that saved clubland" - if he remembers correctly, the article said that at the time he thought e's were getting crap in the mid 90's, it was because the various euro govs had cracked down on the precusor pepronal or safrole(?) & it wasn't until the mitsubishi that underground chemists found a replacement. so what happened? did they loose access to that precusor too? or is it just that they've halved the dose in each pill 'cus it's soo hard to make- which i doubt, because as i said e's are now selling for 1 quid each wholesale, 2-5 quid each retail. in 95 they were 10-20 quid each retail. & they work ok, but the duration is pretty short- 6hrs max.

or are they just making loads ov cheap low dose e's so people buy/take more ov them?

anyone know whats going on?

[nabraxas]

while i'm asking for my friend, he's been interested in the idea ov combining cocaine & mdma. he's done a few searches, the results ov which seem to indicate that doing cocaine while on mdma has little effect on the rush ov the cocaine but after, the effect ov the mdma is diminished.

doing cocaine after the mdma has started to wear off would seem to increase the effect ov the cocaine, but also increase the combined depressive comedowns.

doing cocaine before mdma would seem to be the way to go, but he can't find much info/expeeriences. anyone got any?

he was also wondering about throwing the ssri citalopram into the mix at some point, maybe to lower the risk ov toxicity & comedown; but he has absolutely no clue here. it would seem to be a good idea after mdma- but how long after? & how would it effect taking the cocaine?

all this was to be done in a strictly tantra medative state on the beach, for his lovers birthday- which is on valentines day.

[ 23. January 2003, 08:44: Message edited by: nabraxas ]

[Torsten]

mitsubishis are a long story. the early european releases were really good and as you said probably put new life into a flagging UK club scene. It was merely a good MDMA pill with plenty of the active ingredient. As it goes with any good pill, other people copy the design and put shit into it. Either saving on ingredients or actually replacing it with cheaper stuff like meth and PMA. And that's basically what happened in OZ. A few mitsubishis hit our shores around GL Mardi Gras in Sydney (usual influx of small numbers of high dose pills brought in by gay travellers to finance their holiday), but within weeks they were replaced by high dose PMA. The sad thing is that it was actually the PMA version that got the great reviews in australia. Oz club kiddies just have no idea what real pure MDMA feels like! So here we have bunches of people going off on PMA and doing some major neuro damage in the process, culminating in the death of a raver at one of the Cataract Scout Park raves (was it happy valley??). Another 'ecstacy death' that had nothing to do with MDMA.

Anyway, MDMA only lasts about 3-4 hours, so if you have "good e's" that last 6 hours then they are not pure. Chances are there is some MDA in the mix - which is quite desirable by my tastes

Re safrol - govvies cracked down on it and it was taken off the healthfood shop shelves (about 94/95??) in most countries. I presume it took a little while for manufaturers to open up wholesale channels to obtain the oil (china's production never dropped). This would have increased prices of the final product somewhat and given monopoly to large manufactueres. But the most insidious effect of all would have been that many manufacturers simply switched to anethole as a starting material and produced the very neurotoxic PMA. Have a look through coroner's reports and you will find this chemical implicated in at least half of australia's 'ecstacy deaths'. Considering it probably only has a less than 10% market share, this is a pretty startling statistic and I lay the blame for these deaths of our youth fair and square at our governments and their poor and untruthful drug education.

Buy your test kits people - your life is worth $25!!!

[ 24. January 2003, 00:24: Message edited by: Torsten ]

[nabraxas]

interesting. you really deserved those 5 stars torsten.

we were always aware there was something extra in our pills back in london. there i had a few occasions to try pure white & salmon pink/grey "pure" mdma powder(never saw it as the brown granules i've tried here- which was v. weak IMHO)- this stuff taken in 1/8th ov a gram doses didn't produce any rushes, or such pronounced jaw grinding; it crept up, & after an hour or so you just realised you were really "up"- full ov 'natural' energy, into the music/dancing & luved up to the max. it still lasted a solid 6hrs minimum.

i appreciate your time in answering, can i be cheeky & say my friend is sure you're the man who could answer some ov his other questions- any chance?- or is this board not really the right place? please forgive if i have 'overstepped the bounds'.

[Torsten]

nabraxas - I am not entirely sure what you mean, but if it is related to chemistry then I have to disappoint. I know a lot of theory and used to test all my pills with marquis reagent... I even sent a lot of them to pill testing labs. But that's about where my knowledge ends. Quite intentionally so. I am interested in the chemistry only because I found it frightening that I was putting things into my body that I had no idea what they were. From testing what is NOT in a pill (with EZ test), the natural progression was to find out all the stuff that COULD be in a pill (by reading ALL recipes) and all the stuff that is LIKELY to be in a pill (by keeping track of the underground chem culture at the hive and the popular processes described there, by checking coroners reports, by checking pill test sites, etc).

My consumption dropped rather dramatically in 97/98 (maybe one or two pills a year), quite possibly due to what I learnt .... or maybe I'm just getting too old

[gomaos]

I didnt realise PMA was used so often as a replacement for MDMA. A guy I once met, told me that PMA had a distinctive smell that was different from usual pills. I cant remember exactly what he said it smelled like except that it was like some confectionary, but not sure which. So will your average test kit give a thumbs-up indication if a pill has both MDMA and PMA?

[gomaos]

I didnt realise PMA was used so often as a replacement for MDMA. A guy I once met, told me that PMA had a distinctive smell that was different from usual pills. I cant remember exactly what he said it smelled like except that it was like some confectionary, but not sure which. So will your average test kit give a thumbs-up indication if a pill has both MDMA and PMA?

[Torsten]

PMA gives a different reaction to Marquis reagent (EZ test) than MDMA or MDA. The latter two are pretty indistinguishable but that also doesn't matter much cos they are both fun.

PMA supposedly sometimes smells like anethole (ie anisseed or liquorice), but that is no guarantee. If prepared properly there is no reason why it should smeel of the originating oil. Also I am sure different production procedures will change the smell. MDA/MDMA also sometimes smells of safrole and in such tiny quantities it would probably be ifficult to tell the two smells apart. Use the test kit for fairly reliable results.

[gomaos]

Thats right, aniseed - which reminds of the smell of a highly sought-after pill around the mid nineties - the green & gold cap. These were always sold for more than the usual e's but apparently contained, if legit, loads of MDMA, accelerant(?) and a microdot star. Dealers claimed it was accelerant that was responsible for the strong aniseed smell but I now wonder if it was something else altogether...

[Torsten]

Originally posted by kwan:

Thats right, aniseed - which reminds of the smell of a highly sought-after pill around the mid nineties - the green & gold cap.

Wooohooo! Someone else who remembers them! I am not usually a patriotic person, but in those days green and gold certainly ruled

These were always sold for more than the usual e's but apparently contained, if legit, loads of MDMA, accelerant(?) and a microdot star.

Here go the myths again. Green & Golds were simply a good dose of MDMA. The reason why people thought they had acid in them was cos they were so f*cking potent that they became trippy. Some e-fairies just couldn't handle them and decided to blame that easy scape goat LSD. Don't know just how strong they were, but I would suggest an absolute minimum of 200mg, but probably more than 250mg. I know I was taking 3-10 normal pills in a night at the time, but 2 of the G&G's (at least 3 hours apart) used to put me on my ass for most of the night. I would have never even considered taking two of these at once as that would be madness.

And yeah, they absolutely STANK of safrole. When you opened them up you could see they were a local job... brown speckles and an oily shine to the crystals. Some amateur chemist no doubt. But goodie... they were yummy.

Actually, it was G&G's that first got me interested as to 'what is actually in that capsule/pill'. It probably saved me some major dramas shortly later, when I came across a capsule that stank of parsley oil. Some people I knew got really sick from that, but I avoided it purely due to the smell.

BTW, did you know the G&G capsules were simply recycled Herron paracetamol capsules? (another indicator it was a local product)

[gomaos]

I for one am totally jealous that I missed out on the 90s pill/drug/rave revolution.

I've NEVER been to a rave (cry)!

[woof woof woof]

ahhhh,Yes, the stories of good pills, "pentagrams, crowns, and the big oll Salmiak's"....just to name a few heh, absolutly wonderfull memories...

This was of course in a dream land far away... "thE NEtherlands".....

[Torsten]

Brian, even though i know what salmiak means (it's liquorice isn't it??), I have no idea what the connection to pills is. My friends used to use that term over there in the mid nineties too. Is it because of the smell? and why salmiak, as that would indicate PMA rather than MDMA?

[Sono]

To properly advance in meditation you have to abstain from drugs and alcohol!

Your body is your temple.

[woof woof woof]

Torsten:

Brian, even though i know what salmiak means (it's liquorice isn't it??), I have no idea what the connection to pills is. My friends used to use that term over there in the mid nineties too. Is it because of the smell? and why salmiak, as that would indicate PMA rather than MDMA?

Yes Torsten, I it is indeed liquorice. I can't however say what the connection between the name salmiak's is.... i never tasted them nor smelled them back then, just swallowed...

They were always nicely speckeld, usually dark brown speckles. The pills sold back then as salmiaks were all very dark pills, because of the dark brown speckles. (this reminds me of a liquorice that is called Zwart/wit (black/white, litteral translation from Dutch), which has roughly the same color as the pills..... just withouth the speckels.

Heard of rumors that they had heroin in them. Gnomes bio-essay's could not confirm the heroin, maybe because of all the other drugs that were flowing and pumping through Gnome's system.

However, Gnome was able to confirm, some juicy MDMA(like stuff) frying those brain receptors.

-------------------------------------------------

I did a web search and came up with 0% usefull info on salmiaks.....

[Torsten]

In those days herin was WAYYYYYY too expensive to be admixed in ecstacy. basically, most pills that people claimed to be 'smacky' were either pure MDMA or had some MDEA in them. In contrast to the more stimulating MDA that was also a common admixture, pure MDMA or a mix of MDMA & MDEA is very sedating.

Heroin didn't show in ecstacy until 3 or 4 years ago, and then only on VERY few occasions.

The good pure e's distributed by the orange people (when they were still called that) in the very early 90's were always claimed to be smacky, but in fact contained no heroin at all. If you get a MDMA pill without MDA, caffeine, meth, ephedrine or any other stimulant, then it is likely to be quite sedating in MOST people.

[woof woof woof]

Agree! Hmmmm, I was in holland 4 yeArs ago.... that is when I heard the rumors of hero in the pills... but the salmies indeed go back before i even got to hullanda.... which is 8 years ago....