mycorrhizal Cultivation Idea

[occidentalis]

When inoculating trees with T.melanosporum (usually Oak, sometimes Hazelnut, though there are many host trees),

the trees are allowed to grow in pasteurised potting media for few months at least,

before spore slurry is introduced.

 

Yep

you guys are way over-technicalising things with all the microprop talk. You can do it - that's how it's done with orchids. But you will get useable results with 10% of the effort.

[obtuse]

Yep

you guys are way over-technicalising things with all the microprop talk. You can do it - that's how it's done with orchids. But you will get useable results with 10% of the effort.

 

yeah we probably are, but i guess in my mind it makes sense to work with reasonably serile conditions to ensure success, and then work down to see at what point things become compromised, and to what level. I guess if you looking at a potential comercial situation where you need consistency in results this approach is probably the way to go, but if you happy to do it guerilla style then for sure, this approach is probably way over the top.

for me its not also just having a successful symbotic relationship develop but an deeper understanding of why, and what factors are important.

Cheers, Obtuse.

[themushroombloke]

When inoculating trees with T.melanosporum (usually Oak, sometimes Hazelnut, though there are many host trees),

the trees are allowed to grow in pasteurised potting media for few months at least,

before spore slurry is introduced.

this is done in order for there to be a half decent root system for the

germinating spores and resultant mycelium to team up with.

Micofora in Spain inoculate pine seedlings with milk caps (L.deliciosus and maybe L.sanguifluus) and say that you can expect to have them produce after as little as 3 yrs.

Truffles can fruit that early too, but usually take a little longer.

They also produce and sell pellet spawn (spores in a pelletized dehydrated gel or water crystals afaict) of Boletus spp.(I think it's B.edulis, not sure)

It's recomended that you dig holes or a furrow 10-15cm deep around the dripline of a suitable host tree (beech, oak, chestnut, pine) 20yrs or older.

backfill, water and leave alone.

fruit can be expected after 2yrs,

but no guarentees, so repeat every 2 yrs.

Some plants I've inoculated in tubes with various species have fruited

with species I didn't put in there (Poison pie Hebeloma crustuliniforme ).

the spores or mycelium either has been present in the potting mix or has blown in.

it happened on Chestnut seedlings and Valley white oak (Q.lobata) seedlings,

both less than 2yrs old in forestry tubes.

I tend towards non-sterile aproach, because as obtuse mentioned there may be other factors

needed to get the target species going (esp. Boletus spp. or Cantharellus spp.)

Also, the edno- ecto- thing with trees, changing from one to the other throughout the course of their lives.

Eucalypts do it.

The way I understand it is that they can start of in some pretty hostile sites

and therefore may only have endomycorrhizae to work with if spores or hosts are already present.

If not there, they usually turn up some how.

The tree grows, kills major grass (endomycorrhizal hosts) competition,

then the tree shifts conditions to favour ectomycorrhizal species

and the biology becomes more complex and fungaly dominant soil develops.

If you want to get really serious about it, I recomend This book

It deals with ecto- and endomycorrhizae .

there are agar recipes for sterile culture of ECMs

inoculation methods etc. drawing on a lot of work in West Aus. and some from forestry projects in Asia.

Here is a handy site , mostly native species but not all.

Of the Boletus spp., I'd get B.aereus if I could, as it grows in warmer parts of Nthn. hemisphere.

B.pinophilus for its love of Pine trees... if it could establish in P.radiata plantations,

you'd never pick a Slipery jack again

Well you wouldn't not use any of them really, B.edulis, B.aestivalis.

B.edulis var. grandedulis (Nth Amer.), B.barowsii etc.

I have pines (P.ponderosa, P.patula,) in tubes that are showing signs of ECM activity now

after inoculating last year with a mix of species.

It's a long term project....

 

Thank you for this awesome post it compiles alot of information i have found online in one post! Thanks for the link to that book!

I guess what i think needs to happen is some documentation of Studies. We need to start collecting photo's, documents and diagrams.

My aim with all of this is to SHARE a working technique for mycorrhizal species. I would love to eventualy purchase some property and plant some innoculated trees.

My first experiment is going to be pinus pinea (stone pine/pine nuts) because i believe these would be the best because from a farmers perspective you get money from mushrooms and money from nuts then if one fails one season then you at least have some money coming in.

I will practice germinating these seeds and understanding the speed at which they grow.

I believe it will be important as gecko has said to introduce the fungus at the correct time.

how long do you have to wait until you introduce the spores or Liquid Culture? I believe the mycelium will only connect with the finer roots.

How long can you keep a plant alive invitro?

Is there a way to keep contams out? (perhaps if you were able to contain the soil part of the plant but expose the stem and leaves to outside)

I personally think LC would work best as you have a head start over spores.

If you knowledgable souls could continue to give me direction i will document my findings and hopefully get some sucess.

what i want to do is define a clear game plan.

I'm with obtuse: this is not just about sucessfully getting one crop of mushrooms this about understanding nature and becoming one step closer to being in tune with it. I would like to write a tek and spread it all over the net.

another idea might be to feed some of the roots of a semi mature plant (in a large pot) into a nutrient agar ant farm type setup so you can see what is happening close up.

keep the ideas and info coming in guys it's greatly appreciated.

cheers

[themushroombloke]

here's a new diagram...getting closer, feedback appreciated