KK339 seedlings

[Gunter]

This seed is at least a couple of years old now.

At least two people reported low germination rates from it and for this batch, before me, I am not aware of others getting it to germinate. I am starting to think that dormancy can occur in this genus/species, and that dud seed might not actually be dud seed. I really don't think I did anything different than the others who tried this batch before me.

I heard this seed was bunk, so when I was sowing out I threw some old used soil and leftover potting mix together in a container I didn't bother to clean or even put drain holes in, after all I am just testing some bunk seed. Then I sprinkle the seeds on top and spray the whole thing with tap water by hand to get it moist but not too wet. I close the lid after putting in the label and a week later this is the result. Zero sterilization, no screening of the medium to get it uniform, totally ugly method when it comes down to it. When the seedlings get too crowded and have developed little root systems that can withstand transfer then they will get planted out.

I think there might be some sort of internal clock to the germination.

The temps were rather cool, between 6-17 C for the most part, no heat pad. The seeds did get some nice direct exposure to light, in some plants that helps trigger germination, I read something about different spectra/wavelengths of light (and or the lack thereof) having different effects on seeds relating directly to germination and dormancy, but not in cacti, still I give the seeds a close blast of light before I sow them like some sort of pseudo-solar wake up call, just a few seconds is all I use. But I also surface sow on dry medium and then mist the medium by hand, this sort of settles the seed but pretty much leaves it on the surface too. It basically sinks in, but you can see my medium is coarse and rocky, just like the terrain that these plants evolved in.

Whatever is causing germination to happen, cool temps, time, light, beneficial microbes in the living soil, season cycles etc: if your seed is not germinating then dry it, store it, and try it again next year. Maybe try some of the others things, but really just wait.

It kind of does make sense for the seed to have a dormancy period, many cacti are known to have this. Basically in some genera (after seeds have dried) there are two patterns to germination, the first is that fresher seed has higher germination rates and as it ages the rates slowly decrease, the second is that fresher seed has a lower germination rate and as it ages the rates slowly increase!

Essentially some old seed that is nearly dead will have the same germination rates as some newer seed that will become far more viable with time!

[gerbil]

ah found it! been searching under macro seed, but it was macro seed i was trying that was 'dud'!

Seed long gone now unless someone has some stashed, so trial can't really be done, i recall it was around 3/1000 germination.

Thought this is worth bringing back up, surprised no comment, was speaking about this at the recent meet regarding poor germination in a year (or 2-3?) old icaro peruvianus seed and told them of your thoughts / method with sunlight exposure, possibly cool warm, wet dry cycles etc.

What are your thoughts on viability times over years in tricho's gunter?

Or should i ask, what is the oldest known batch of tricho seed people have had success in germinating?

I've wondered over the years about tricho seed dormancy, looking under a 10x loupe seems like it'd be a hard nut to crack, pondered on dormancy mechanisms, especially given the size of the seed, i've sorta had a feeling they are similar to acacia in many ways, easy as fresh, harder as older, possibly ant candy, germinating with disturbance in appropriate conditions (like most seed i guess, but differences across the plant world eh)

I did try leaching methods in tap water on older known viable seed, fairly pointless, very undisciplined test, aimed for leaching then just seeing if they'd crack underwater, changed and flushed over a couple of weeks like Sceletium, but can't for the life of me remember where they were sown or what i did with them. I don't think they did crack under water.

Anyway always found this post interesting and has been on my mind for a while, think there is something to it.

Edited October 4, 2011 by gerbil

[Gunter]

I think there was a labeling problem, this seed seems to have been bunk for the person who passed it on to me, that is true, and it did come labeled 339, however it is growing into a long spine population that does not seem to be pachanoi at all.

i have heard of well stored 50 year old trich seed growing fine

i believe in nature the seed is not long lived and does not has much of a dormancy,

[gerbil]

cheers for the info gunter, something for me to think about :D

[Evil Genius]

We had the same issues with this seed. Few months ago, when i tried the viability i had zero germinations. Now in late August, i had about 100. I dont know what caused the seedlings to sprout but it´s definately fascinating. bye EG

[Philocacti]

when i first started growing from seeds, i had a few seed batches that didnt sprout and i threw them away after 2 months or something.

Now when i face the same problem i just leave the tray and let it dry out then water it again. I tried this on the last 2 seed batches that didn't sprout good enough and one of them is sprouting now (like 4 months after the initial trial) and i'll keep on doing this with the other batch and see what happens.

Great thread

[Heretic]

Hi Gunther , I also have had similar germination problems , and so too have mates who also experience the same hassles . We truthfully have no idea as to why Trich seeds can be erratic re germination . Some believe their seed is possibly old and losing viability , but that they can fire months later after neglect suggests to me that they do so when they're ready ; or perhaps there are required conditions we are not aware of . I have no trouble at all with lophs , but have given up lately trying to raise trichs from seed . You're not the only one with trich germination hassles ; and if any one out there has advice , I too would like to learn more . regards , Tom .

[Philocacti]

i have sown these seeds "Ecuadorian pachanoi X Psycho0" from nitrogen about 6 months ago and a lot of them have germinated fine. Today i noticed that there is a new wave of seeds that are germinating. 6 months after sowing

This is very exciting to me.

I wish i hadn't thrown all the seeds (in past trails) that didn't germinate. Maybe if i have given them more time they would have germinated eventually.