Swedish Snus

[Smiling Cloud]

I bought some snus the other day and recieved it today.

Upon opening the snus can i was met with a strong odour of ammonia. It instantly reminded me of cleaing stables when i was a kid. I was reluctant to put the stuff in my mouth but once i did i discovered that it tasted nothing like it smells, a very good thing!

THe taste is hard to describe but it certainly doesn't taste like getting some smoking tobacco in your mouth. It is salty and slightly sweet. It burns a little when it is placed in the lip but that quickly goes away. It is a nice burn though as it corresponds witht the feeling of nicotine coursing through my veins.

THe feeling is instant and feels like a smoking a cig and although not as intense, the nic hit certainly lasts longer. If more nicotine is required i just adjust the little quid in my mouth until i feel the burn again.

As for price, fantastic. I was chewing nicotine gum before this and it was costing me $30 for 96 pieces of 4mg gum. THis gives me 384mg in toal. THe snus i bought is the strongest one on the website i bought it from at 17mg/g. THere's 45g in a tin so i get 765mg. A tin of snus costs me a whopping $4!!!

THe snus effect is also way better than the gum as the dose is more easily managed. I could never quite get it right with the gum as sometimes it takes awhile to get to the peak and sometimes it doesn't. So i'd be chewing a few pieces not getting where i wanted to be and then suddenly i;d realise that i'd way overshot my dose and feel like throwing up. Other times i;d be chewing a few pieces and it wouldn't be doing anything at all. Also the gum made me salivate profusely so i;d be constantly spitting, snus doesn not have that effect on me.

If you are a smoker and don;t want to be then i would strongly urge that you check out snus. Make sure you buy swedish snus as it is alot lower in Tobacco Specific Nitroasamines than all other forms of tobacco from my understanding. Initially i ordered some american snus but after doing some research i realised that it is just as bad for you as smoking. Instead of getting lung cancer you get mouth cancer, hurrah! After reading that i was disheartened but then i discovered that swedish snus is cured in a diffrent way and contains very little nitrosamines and as such is less harmful.

So check it out!

[ballzac]

Apologies for bumping such an old thread, but there are heaps of snus threads already, and I didn't want to start another, so I thought I'd post here.

We don't smoke inside at our current place, so over the past two years, I've transitioned from mostly pipe-smoking to mostly chewing. The tobacco I chew is the pipe-tobacco I tend smoke, which fortuitously is very suitable for chewing. In fact, in other countries, a smaller gauge is sold as chewing tobacco, but it is the same leaf. I am concerned about the health effects of chewing. While I think both chewing and pipe-smoking are safer than smoking cigarettes, I know that both can be strong risk factors for cancers (in particular oral and esophageal). I would like to make the change to snus, as current research implies that snus is very low risk, though unlikely to be completely harmless.

I also tend to mix my tobacco with bi-carb because it is too weak for me without it, and I can't stand lime, except maybe when it's well integrated into a product. But this takes away from the tobacco flavour and makes it taste like crap. It also increases salivation, and I find that if I spit it out, the increased absorption from the bi-carb is reduced, so I end up chewing for about 1/2 hour with a mouthful of bad-tasting tobacco and bi-carb spit. It's hard to talk, though my girlfriend can mostly understand my garbled grunts, it's not something I like to do in public, so when I'm out and about, I usually find a secluded area and wander about by myself for a bit.

Anyway, for all these reasons, snus seems like a great option. It sounds like the low pH and high nicotine content of the stronger ones would suit me, and it should be very discrete, and I'm looking forward to trying all the different flavours. So I ordered 5 tins from buysnus today. I'm wondering what people's current experiences are with customs. Someone posted in one of these threads that only 1 in 5 or so of their shipments gets held by customs and taxed. Other stories on other forums suggest a similar rate, but strangely, some people seem to never get them held, and others say they almost always get held. Some people claim that one tin will get through but multiples won't, and some people say up to 3 will get through. Some claim that it depends where you get them and how the sender labels the packaging, and some say it depends on which shipping method you use.

A lot of this info is old, so I'm curious what experiences people have had lately. Also just wanted to get more discussion about this product happening and see if many people here are using snus. Cheers.

Edited August 4, 2012 by ballzac

[Evil Genius]

Hi Ballzac, i only tried Snus for a very short time few years so i cant add anything new but i read a few studies about oral nicotine and nitrosamines. Long story short, stay away from american brands and go with swedish snus that are made with the gothia tek. You can find some lab work online if you search for the terms "nitrosamines" and "oral nicotine" or something like that. Despite general belief, newest studies pointed out that swedish snus is NOT devoid of nitrosamines, though the content is usually lower than in cigarettes or dips and other snus. I strongly disadvise against chewing of smoking tobacco because its way more likely to cause cancer than a swedish snus. I would also disadvise against adding lime to chewing tobacco or snus because i think i´ve read in a study that it increased the cancerogenity of the nitrosamines tremendeously. Could be wrong though, was some time ago. It was a study about oral tobacco consumption and cancer in India. Very interesting read.

[ballzac]

Thanks EG,

Hadn't heard the lime thing before, but it makes sense, because the Indian stuff seems to be the most dangerous and is also generally very high in lime.The research so far suggests that the swedish snus is incredibly safe for a tobacco product. In fact, it's hard to find peer-reviewed research that shows a strong link between swedish snus and mortality. No doubt there will be much better info available over the next couple of decades as use continues to rise.

[Snowfella]

Born and raised in Sweden it was my main form of nicotine intake before moving downunder some 11 years ago.

Can't comment about how safe it is but one thing is for sure it seriously messes with your gums! Went cold turkey, or rather ramped up my smoking, when I moved down here and I still 11 years later have a pretty sizeable hole under my lip.

Suspect the pre bagged types are better than the loose stuff when it comes to keeping that divot from forming, but from memory those tasted like crap!

[Evil Genius]

Yeah if i would go with a oral tobacco product again, i´d probably go with swedish snus if not with a nicotine chewing gum or inhaler. But i would like to see a few studies more before i im convinced it doesnt cause cancer. However, first findings did indeed point into that direction and that would be a great thing to fully understand the process that causes the cancer in smokers. In the studies i read, the bagged one was really the least problematic for the health. Just like snowfella mentioned before. And the moist salted one did contain a whole lot less nitrosamines than the dried one. Thats why i would strongly disadvise against dried tobacco for chewing.

[Evil Genius]

Heres the paper i meant btw:

http://www.seeht.org/Stepanov%20et%20al%20Apr_2006.pdf

[ballzac]

Thanks EG. Wow, shows why the american dipping tobaccos are considered so bad.

[Evil Genius]

Yeah and apart from the fact that the moist tobacco is less dangerous, the reason for the american tobacco being more cancerous is actually very simple too. Their way of treating or curing the tobacco after the harvest is the cause. Green tobacco leaves do not contain large amounts of nitrosamines. They build up with time during the process of drying. So if you dry your leaves in the sun, you will get a lot more nitrosamines than when you pasteurize and salt the tobacco directly after the harvest. And the older the leaves are, the more nitrosamines can build up during time. Unfortunately there is no smokable tobacco that was treated like this. At least there wasnt when i still smoked so i simply stopped.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Evil Genius

[ballzac]

I'll be interested in seeing how much I it ends up costing me in the long run too. Even buying portioned snus, and paying all the duty and GST, this would end up being about $70 for 5 tins, which would be about 100 portions. Now, because I've never used them before, I'm not really sure how much I'll use, but people tend to say that the stronger ones can be good for a couple of hours. If this is true, then I would be unlikely to have more than about 8 in a day, and this would end up meaning that the 5 tins would last me about two weeks. I usually spend about $70 on tobacco to last me about two weeks, so this wouldn't end up costing me any more. I'm normally very satisfied with what I have and just use it whenever I feel the need, so it's much cheaper than smoking ciggies, which for the same level of nicotine consumption would be about $250 for that fortnight.

I can understand why people are so outraged at the taxation in Australia when they see what people are paying for snus overseas, but what I don't understand is how so many people say that snus is getting too expensive for them due to the duty and they end up going back to ciggies. If my above calculations are correct, I don't see how you could possibly save money by smoking ciggies unless a snus only lasts you half an hour or so.

There are also dry snus available. These would work out cheaper because you're not paying duty on the extra water, but might not be a good idea for reasons explained by EG (though it's still Swedish snus, so these problems might not exist considering that it is still pasteurised rather than fermented). The only problem is that they are quite low strength (6mg/g) so this might nullify the cost benefit. Someone should develop an ultra-strong snus that comes in small pellets that have the same nicotine as the larger portions. There would be a fairly big market in Australia and Canada where the duty ends up being the majority of the total cost.

[indigo264nm]

I recommend the Skruf brand Stark or Extra Stark.... both portioned and loose are great. But portioned is a bit saltier and less messy unless you get your pris packing perfect which is a challenge - either mud slides or too tight, hard to get a happy medium. Nice earthy flavour with bergamot, and rose hints. Extra Stark portioned are 16mg per portion, stark 12mg and original 8mg by memory

It's tasty shit.

[ballzac]

Yeah, that's been recommended by just about every snuser. I got the Extra portions. The flavour sounds right up my alley.

[ballzac]

Well one of my packages arrived today, marked by customs but no tax applied. This was from buysnus, and I ordered two packages, sent on different days. The first was five cans sent on monday last week, the second was two cans sent on tuesday. It is the two cans that arrived first, which makes me wonder if the 5 cans got held up by custom and maybe I'll have to pay tax on it. I've accounted for tax on all of them when budgeting for this, so I'm okay with that, but would prefer not to if possible. People say that the fewer cans you get the less likely you are to pay tax, with 5 usually being the maximum before tax is almost certain, and 1 or 2 cans almost never being taxed, so that would make sense if the 5 cans got held up while the two got through. I also ordered 3 cans from northerner, but people say they take a day or two longer to post, so I'm expecting that later this week if it doesn't get held up in customs.

Really happy to get my two cans though, because it's been really hard to stomach chewing on the pipe-tobacco/bicarb combo when I know I have some snus on the way.

What I got is Thunder Coola Los, and Oden's Extreme Los. The Coola smells and tastes awesome, just like cola-bottle lollies. It doesn't smell or taste minty to me, but there is a minty cooling effect which is nice. I wasn't sure how much I should use. My tolerance is pretty high at the moment, so I just packed what I see people usually use in youtube videos. I think I need a bit of practice with baking it. I ended up making it too round, and it made a big lump under my lip, so I took it out and reshaped it, but it started falling apart. Eventually I got it into a good shape and put it back in. It still stuck out a bit so I just squashed my lip to flatten it a bit. This caused some to break off, but it doesn't taste bad or anything, and swallowing a few pieces wasn't a problem. About half an hour into it, and I'm feeling a nice buzz from the nicotine, so I think the size was right for me. If I get a couple of hours out of a piece like this then I'll be really happy.

The oden's has a really earthy smell, kind of reminds me of bong water, lol, or some plant extracts, but not intense enough to be offputting. I haven't tried it yet, but once I'm done with the coola that's in at the moment, I'll try one of the oden's and report back.

EDIT: Sorry, it wasn't marked by customs. I just saw something on it that said customs and didn't read further, but it turns out it was the customs declaration. Looks like customs didn't go near it, hasn't been opened or anything.

Edited August 15, 2012 by ballzac

[ballzac]

Well I'm onto the oden's extreme now. It is much harder to bake. Other people have said it's great to bake, so I don't know if my one is in poorer condition or something. It's moist, but it's like the moisture isn't impregnated into the snus, so even though it's wet on the outside, it's very crumbly. I did everything I could to compress it but without much luck. My last try, I put it in the palm of my left hand and compressed it with my right thumb. It still just fell apart when I picked it up to put it in my mouth. I ended up just lifting my upper lip and shoving a wad of crumbly snus under it. It's actually managed to mostly stay together now though.

The taste is very reminiscent of poppy seed, and not much else. It's meant to be really strong, but I'm not getting as much of a buzz out of it as I did with the thunder, though it's possible that I lost a fair bit in my palm while trying to bake it. Overall I like the thunder coola better, but I'll be interested to see how I feel about some of the other unflavoured tobaccos once they arrive.

[ballzac]

Well, strangely, there was more snus in the letterbox when I took the bins out just now. I can only think maybe my girlfriend hadn't checked properly when she said that my snus hadn't arrived yesterday, and the one that was in there this morning was from yesterday.

Anyway, this one is from northerner, and contains a jakobssons melon portion, a sommarsnus portion, and a skruf xtra sterk portion. The jakobssons smells amazing. Pretty much like watermelon hubba-bubba. I'm a big fan of more mature things, but always have to also go for things like this from time to time. The sommarsnus, strangely, smells like DXM. That's a little offputting for me, but I know it's just an aversion that one gets to the smell/taste of certain substances, so I'm definitely going to enjoy giving it a go anyway and hopefully get that Robo association out of my head. The skruf reminds me of some lakeland tobaccos, particularly the SG grousemoor (love the flavour of that stuff, but it was never strong enough for me) and less so the GH scented dark flake. I think I'm going to love this stuff. I've had a thunder coola in for about 3 hours and it's still going strong, but I might have to dump it to give one of these others a try.

[Yawning Man]

What brand/strength would a non-smoker like me be looking at? I like a cig every now and then but hate the smoke and it can sometimes make me really sick. I've been looking at buysnus and can't get my head around the brands and what i'm actually buying. I'd like something that will give a bit of kick but wont make me ill, and something earthy tasting, or as close to tabacco as you can get without it tasting like shit.

Any suggestions?

[ballzac]

None of them really taste like tobacco as we all know it. The closest you can get, I reckon, is the Oden's extreme. It's very strong, but you can just use a smaller pinch to get a milder effect. General is also fairly earthy. It's the texture of clay, and has an aroma that reminds me of the smell of rain on a hot day. Probe might be worth you trying. It's similar to General but has a smokey element from added Islay whisky. Portions fail at the earthy flavours and most of the weak ones are strongly flavoured, so for what you want, I'd suggest only getting los.

Ultimately, none of them taste all that good. It was fun for a month or so, but now I just try to ignore the flavour, and when I want something that tastes better, I take my chances with some pipe-tobacco or a cigar, or chew on some rope.

[indigo264nm]

Funny, I just ordered some again to help me quit smoking since it works out to be stronger and cheaper than nicotine gum. Also I have developed a particular taste for a specific brand - Skruf Extra Stark. The potion variety to me is still enjoyable taste nice wise with a solid 16mg of nicotine per portion. It's meant to be rose oil and bergamot flavoured... I also dig the saltiness which is used to make the nicotine easier to absorb through the mucus membranes.

The los product of the same brand has a slightly stronger flavour, but learning how to prepare a pris\prilla that isn't too tight or doesn't fall apart into mudslides takes a lot of practice.

For these reasons the portion is ideal if you plan on consuming in public as mudslides are not an attractive sight.

I have also tried Thunder Frosted Extra Stark is extremely minty, to the extent that it burnt a bit at the start. Also tried General Portion, and Goteborg Rape but as said am sold on the Skruf. Keep your orders to only a couple of tins because there is a better chance of it slipping through the cracks. I've ordered maybe 7 times without paying duty, but my most recent order of 5 tins is taking much longer than I remembered from previous ordered which is a good guess that I'm going to get a letter from customs demanding money.

[ballzac]

The los product of the same brand has a slightly stronger flavour, but learning how to prepare a pris\prilla that isn't too tight or doesn't fall apart into mudslides takes a lot of practice.

For these reasons the portion is ideal if you plan on consuming in public as mudslides are not an attractive sight.

I don't even bother trying to bake it into a pris anymore. I'd just end up with messy hands and a chunk would always fall off as I'm trying to put it in my mouth. I tried using a tool to bake them, but they make a very chunky and uncomfortable pris. The way I do it now is just to put some los on my tongue with a spoon, making sure my mouth isn't too wet, and then push it under my gums with my tongue. Works perfectly.

I use the portions when I'm out for the reason you mentioned, as well as that they are easier to put in and remove discretely. I top lip the los and bottom lip the portions, so if my lip gets sore from the salt, I will switch to portions for a while until my top lip has recovered.