antideps, dexies & ethnos

[bushy]

Hi. I am wondering whether anyone here may have any hard knowledge about the combination of SSRI and SNRI antidepressant medications (citalopram and venlafaxine specifically) with say, mescaline, or indeed most other psychoactives?

Is there an appreciable difference in potency?

In a similar vein, is dexamphetamine known to cause any weakening of the major (and minor) hallucinogens?

Should it be discontinued before use of mescaline (purely with respect to the activity of the latter)?

Long-term, high dosage prescriptions of above (60mg cit, 150mg ven, 65mg dex) as well as previous experience of psychedelics and other chems are present.

Cheers.

PS. Pray forgive the overt, semi-clinical nature of this post - all of the above is hypothetical and inquisitive; nothing illegal nor dangerous is to be attempted.

[nabraxas]

not an expert, but i've never noticed any reduction in effect from the amphet., psychedelic combo.-- more like the opposite. :D

[psylogic]

I'm no expert but i believe that SSRI but they may cause a seritonin overload here is a site with lots of info. Heres an article about SSRI's + cocaine. http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/antide...ne-toxicity.htm

[psylogic]

here is another link i found at leda on SSRI + Hallucinogens. http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=8423 > and here on erowid there is a whole section. it looks like they have a negative effect unlike MOA Inhibitors.

[ 10. May 2004, 17:12: Message edited by: psylogic ]

[John_Barleycorn]

A FOAF did speed and acid together once about 20 years ago (ie, back when tabs commanded respect). His impression at the time was that the psychedelic effects were indeed diminished, and to add insult to injury, the comedown was prolonged and ugly. He thought to himself at the time that a recuperative dose of speed the day after a trip might however be worth a try. On the other hand, it could be a case of simply postponing (and compounding) the inevitable!

[Torsten]

visual effects from hallucinogens are improved by high serotonin levels. Amphetamines will generally deplete serotonin (as the body counteracts the adrenal effects) and hence will reduce visual effects.

On the other hand, taking enough of each will simply leave you so f*cked up that it would be difficult to say whether one reduced the other or synergised. But as mentioned, the come down is usually rather nasty.

Meth and shrooms don't seem to go together as nicely as meth and acid. Interestingly, years ago i read a reference that LSD and amphetamine are cross tolerant, while LSD and shrooms are not.

[bushy]

Thankyou everyone for your replies.

Torsten:

On the issue of the ssri/snris then, are you saying that one should only expect greater effects from these entheogens if taking these drugs?

Cheers,

Bushy

[Tryptameanie]

My experience is that (a co-administered dose of)amphetamine increases at least aspects of a psychedelic's effects, while citalopram reduces the effect. I don't know whether the amphetamine thing is the same with chronic use. The interaction between citalopram (long term use but only 20mg), and both psylocybin and LSD, was very noticable, (perhaps twice the usual dose was required). No sign of any peripheral serotonergic toxicity.

I personally wouldn't recommend stopping the amphetamine before a trip- considering your highish-dose chronic use, I think that the effect of it's withdrawal could easily negatively influence your experience. If you did stop I'd do it at least a couple of weeks before your planned excursion.

As to the citalopram, I doubt you're in any danger with combining it, and what I've said above could also hold, but if mescal supplies are not as bountiful as they might be, it's likely stopping several days pre-trip could provide a greater effect.

[grantos]

HI THERE, FROM MY TRAILS I HAVE FOUND THAT SSRI'S (CITRALOPRAM AND AROPAX) COMBINED WITH TRYPTAMINES (I HAD CUBENSIS MUSHROOM 9GRAMS ONE TIME 6GRAMS THE OTHER) IS NOT THE BEST THING AS COMPARED TO WHEN YOU ARE NOT TAKING SSRI'S. IN MY EXPEREINCES THE EFFECT OF THE MUSHRROM WITH THE ssri'S WAS NOT AS GOOD AS WITHOUT THE ssri'S (I HAVE BEWEN TAKING THESE FOR A WHILE NOW). I HAVE ACTUALLY DECIDED NOT TO USE MUSHROOMS ANYMORE WHILE I AM USING THE SSRI'S. BUT EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT!

[Torsten]

SSRI's usually decrease hallucinogen effects. Taking SSRI's doesn't actually mean you have higher serotonin levels but rather than the present serotonin is utilised more. Most SSRI users don't get any major visual effects.

SSRIs can however increase the effect of MDMA dramatically.... or they can totally annihilate it. Again, I think it depends on the actual serotonin reserves rather than the 'recycled/reused' amounts in the synaptic cleft.

I am a little lost on the dex aspect of the question. Are we talking medical dex of regular meth use? Medical dex wouldn't have much of an effect, but one should look at the effect caused by the condition that results in the prescription of dex in the first place.

Regular meth use is likely to deplete serotonin via antagonism and will cause a lowering of serotonin reserves (ie a lower hallucinogen effect in general). Occasional meth use concurrent with halluciongen dosage will cause the adrenaline to override some of the hallucinogen's serotonergic effects.

[mescalito]

The A/D link(/s) above(if true and I feel it is close),relates that seretonin is basically trapped in the area it can be utilized under the drug,and by the way..DON'T JUMP OFF ANY ANTI_DEPPRESSANT EVEN FOR A DAY OR SO WITHOUT KNOWING THE CONSEQUENCES-THIS CANNOT BE EXPREESED MORE HIGHLY IT'S DOWNRIGHT DANGEROUS!!

(which is why we shouldn't take them in the first place IMHO)

but

that would depend totally on the physiognamy(Sp.?-I'm half-cut but it sounds right )of the subject.

What I mean to say roughly is:

just because there's a schooner of beer in front of you doesn't mean you're gunna drink it.

Although you have to drink it to feel an effect,as does the brain soup.

Or in other words..just because there's an abundance of chemical to use,each brain will leach what they want/need,and anti-depressants MAY hinder your endogenous chemical control over this process.

No drug works exactly the same for everyBODY.

My partner has been on Cipramil for years now,and thanx to your link she's heading to freedom from her only true 'affliction'

[Rev]

In General have noticed that people on SSRI's get little effect from Mushrooms

Also people spaced out on opiates dont seem to get there either

Personally i would never take SSRI's or any medication that chronically affects my mind.

I would rather change my life or deal with the issues than block out it and my being with these nullifying drugs

But this is an ideological stance everyone has to choose or not choose

[planthelper]

oh, so snort some sceletium befor mdma use!

but sceletium usage beforhand, can render sally, shrooms and spice useless as halu!