no effect from nymphea or nelumbo?

[t st tantra]

just been reading at spirit plants forum a whole lot of negative reports with these plants.

i'd like to suggest that if anyone is having trouble they treat it like a sally break through and try it preferably smoked with shiva in dark silence.

t s t .

[ 28. February 2004, 12:26: Message edited by: t st tantra ]

[friendly]

One of the main reasons I left SP is that the demographic there had changed from people primarily seeking information to people trying to make a name for themselves by challenging findings rather than confirming them.

If you are looking to find no effects from something such as Blue Lily so you can say it doesn't work, you will.

Plus, most of these young people who think they already know it all have NO experience with anything that requires awareness of subtilties to appreciate; if it doesn't hammer them, it's no good.

My experiences with these types have always been the same; they try it once--usually in a party situation, don't see god and say it's bogus, having become authorities by their one misguided effort.

It helps to know how to 'tune in'...

As for Sally, it was discovered some time back that smoking Salvia splendens prior (15 mintues)to using Sally worked for roughly 90% of hardheads, breaking down their walls for the first time.

Also, smoked together, the intensity and peak of the S.d is flattened somewhat, but lengthened considerably.

Has anybody tried splendens and Lily together?

Just a thought...

So many herbs; so little time.

[mescalito]

The effects are quite subtle to begin with.So what tantra is saying I guess is that the shiva would aid in detecting the subtle effects for future reference?

My splendens needs a trim too

[ 29. February 2004, 10:28: Message edited by: mescalito ]

[M S Smith]

Hey friendly, great info as usual man. I am still over at SPF (but certainly here and elsewhere as well), but don't mind the newby here or there; it keeps me on my toes and brings more folks into the knowledge of these things. But of course who am I to talk, I'm mostly talking about cacti, and there is little room for controversy as no one, myself included, is up for gobbling down Ariocarpus, Epithalanthas, Coryphanthas or Mamillarias. I'd like to think that I'm not one of those you think are know it alls as there is a clear diffence between them and I...I actually do know it all. :cool:

Humbly submitted,

~Michael~

[friendly]

Humbly accepted.

Am I still listed as moderator or did they finally figure out I'm not coming back?

I got tired of being challenged by every 'new gun' that came along trying to make their reputation by disputing the 'authorities' without having any first-hand knowledge, just stuff they read somewhere.

I refused to give directions to an obviously under-age person on how to concentrate the poisons from a plant with no ludible use--poisons that could only be used to hurt another person or animal--when they told me it was none of my business what they were going to do with such deadly poisons.

For this I was attacked by said person.

That was the final straw. Rather than argue, I left.

I have nothing against newbies, only the arrogant and deceitful have felt my displeasure.

[ 01. March 2004, 08:19: Message edited by: friendly ]

[X. Torris]

Completely understandable--- and it's our loss.

X. Torris

[Tryptameanie]

"i'd like to suggest that if anyone is having trouble they treat it like a sally break through and try it preferably smoked with shiva in dark silence."

The problem with doing this while trying a new drug, particularly if the effects are subtle, is that the effects of shiva and sensory deprivation are themselves not only strong, but highly variable. This leaves the experimenter extremely vulnerable to placebo effects, and vastly impairs their ability to make qualitative judgements of the effects of the new drug or appreciate it's subtleties. If you need to smoke dope with a drug to get an effect, maybe it just doesn't work.

Please note that I have never tried or even seriously researched lily or lotus, and have no idea about their effects or lack thereof.

[friendly]

If you are familiar with the effects of a substance ('frame of reference') and add something that modifies those effects, even subtly, it is sometimes easier to detect those modifications than subtle differences from unknown substances tested alone.

In the Amazon shamans are known to try small quantities of new herbs while on Aya. to see if there is any change, thereby determining the effects without having to take a larger and potentially toxic dose.

As a matter of fact, Aya is a combination of two or more dissimilar herbs that separately have little or no effect. It was only through such experimentation that the properties of the Aya mixture were discovered.

[ 23. March 2004, 02:38: Message edited by: friendly ]

[theobromos]

Alcohol seems to me a better mixture with lotus (by which I mean both nymphaea and nelumbo). The only failures I know of to appreciate the extracts of these plants is when they are taken without alcohol. Alcohol changes the effect from narcotic to euphoric.

MSS, I found Ariocarpus quite fun, but haven't got round to trying it again.

[Rev]

The effects are subtle but cumulative.

kind of a reverse tolerance

The first time i got stoned i didnt really.

My brain had to learn to be stoned

I think the lillies are the same, you try it and you may feel a bit relaxed, maybe a bit odd

it wears off and you are not sure if it did much

but agin you try it and theres that same oddness

once you recognise it you can begin to explore it

[planthelper]

this i very true rev, with some substances, the body & brain has to learn to achive the desired effect. but once achived it's a skill for life.

i often thought about that, but never saw it mentioned anywhere.

i remember a funny thing about that.

a woman, having her 3rd mj attempt complained, it's doing nothing, it's not doing anything,... but to us onlooker's, it was clear, she was out of her head ( talked all the time, thought allway's it's her turn, to roll the dice, laughed a lot, and so on...)