occidentalis Posted February 26, 2004 Greetings people, I've had a question bouncing around in my head for a while now and a recent thread here revived it. Coffee and tea contain tannins (bad for you) and antioxidants (good for you). As far as I know, tea is generally better for you - is this just because of caffeine levels or are other chems involved? What are the ratios of tannins and antioxidants between tea and coffee like? Milk proteins bind to tannins, removing them from solution and preventing them from harming you (right?), so adding milk is good. However, milk proteins also bind to antioxidants, preventing them from benefiting you, so adding milk is bad! So, to add milk, or not to add milk? Is it better to do so with either coffee or tea but not the other? Does soy milk have the same effects? Or should I just stick to chamomile? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted February 26, 2004 i'll give this one a go this is all stuff i've heard so hopefully others will correct any errors. the antioxidents in tea are mainly in green tea--black tea has been processed too much, & yes the milk fucks any that are left---green tea is drunk w/out milk. coffee doesn't have enough antioxidents to worry about, so using the milk to bind the tannins is a good idea. tea contains more caffeine than coffee- but most ov it is locked into the leaf & wasted (? really doubt that) soy milk really isn't much better for you than cows milk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
occidentalis Posted February 26, 2004 nabraxas: soy milk really isn't much better for you than cows milk. I realise this, but cows milk tastes like cows, so I drink organic whole-bean soy . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alcaline Posted February 27, 2004 Actually, tannins are antioxydant!! (this is done by linking to any free radicals). There is also other antioxydants in tea like flavonoids. There is virtually no tanins in coffea but there is a lot in tea (this is the reddish stuff dying your cup when you leave some tea for ours in the cup). Tanins are destroyed when the tea leaves are fermented. Green tea is just dried leaves not fermented (like white tea I think), Oolong tea is just a little fermented, red or black tea is fully fermented. Tanins link to caffein and release it slowly, so this is why the tea dont give you a hit like coffea but have a longer effect. (in fact there is more % caffeine in the tea leaves than in the coffea fruit!!). Tanins link also to any proteins like those in your saliva. It precipitate out the protein and make your tongue scrape (like the tanins in red wine). In fact, it bound to any protein like those in milk so adding milk would help for the taste but would anihilate the antioxydant effect. One more think, if you pour some milk onto hot tea, the protein would precipitate (like curdled milk) because of the heat, so that the taste would be not good and the linking effect would not be there! so you have to slowly poor the tea onto the milk to assure a slow increase in temperature for the milk. So, i think this is it :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted February 27, 2004 alcaline---thanks alot geezer. most ov my post was hearsay- from moderately reliable sources--but i knew it wasn't the full picture. you cleaned it up & filled it out--nice one I realise this, but cows milk tastes like cows, so I drink organic whole-bean soy yeah, i think the whole debate -soy v dairy- is a much ov a muchness. Rice milk would probably be healthier all round, but have you tried that stuff? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smogs Posted February 27, 2004 yeah i dont know why people worrie about how "bad" milk is for you when it has less than 4% fat and lots of good stuff like calcium but are willing to eat pastries with their low fat milk tea or coffee. heh heh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alcaline Posted February 27, 2004 I dont mind before now about soja vs milk. But one good point for soja is that it doesn't contain casein wich can cause critical allergy on some people. One more think i forget to mention is that cafeine is very soluble in water and so disolve quikly contrariwise tanins are released into hot water very slowly. So, it does mean that, when you brew a green tea (wich is not fermented so full of tanins), the first infusion is full of cafeine with few tanins (if you remove tea leaves quickly). This first infusion is throw up by touaregs (who drink lot of tea all day) to not become too speed. The second and third infusion are made in a longer time and so contain full tanins and no cafein -- so very good for your health. In fact infusion is not a good way to proceed extraction, percolation (like when you make a coffee) is far more effective and virtually extract all of the soluble stuffs in coffee beans. [ 27. February 2004, 09:33: Message edited by: Alcaline ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chief23 Posted February 27, 2004 Cows milk is for Calves!!!! http://www.rense.com/about/milk.htm Being a vegan I had to say that. Chief Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted February 27, 2004 Sounds like most of the errors were already weeded out so my rant will be short. 1) Tea leaves do indeed contain more caffeine per gram than coffee beans, but less is used per cup so 'tea' has less caffeine than 'coffee'. 2) Who said tannins were bad for you? Extremely high tannin intake does increase risk of esophogeal (sp?) cancer but normal quantities have antibacterial, anticancer, anticarcinogenic, antidiarrhetic, antihepatotoxic, antihypertensive, antimutagenic, antioxidant, antitumor, antiulcer, antiviral, cancer preventative, hepatoprotective, etc. effects. I'd drink it :cool: If cow milk tastes like cows, does human milk taste like people? Hmmm... wheres a kinky pregnant girl when you need one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alcaline Posted February 28, 2004 found in your website chief23: quote: Most cow's milk has measurable quantities of herbicides, pesticides, dioxins (up to 200 times the safe levels), up to 52 powerful antibiotics (perhaps 53, with LS-50), blood, pus, feces, bacteria and viruses. (Cow's milk can have traces of anything the cow ate... including such things as radioactive fallout from nuke testing ... wow, its clear that one who drink this poisoned beverage would die instantly :D I wonder how does feces incorpore into milk.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theobromos Posted February 28, 2004 Cashew nut milk is my favourite, along with almond and hempseed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted February 28, 2004 ...and the soya beans have been all contaminated (open pollination), with gen modified soy. organic soy milk, will be/is a thing of the past. the wind blows the pollen much further than the "gods in white" thought it would. go and enjoy your soy milk, the residue of roundup is good for you... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted February 28, 2004 http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/index.htm has some good articles on just how dangerous soy could be. cashew milk sounds great-- how much/litre? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chief23 Posted February 28, 2004 Interesting link, seems everything is bad for us now days. Soon it wont be safe to eat or drink anything. Chief Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted February 28, 2004 chief23: Cows milk is for Calves!!!! http://www.rense.com/about/milk.htm Being a vegan I had to say that. Chief Being an omnivore, I had to say....hahahhahaha :D GET REAL DUDE - all the google pages about the dangers of milk come up RENSE.COM That only to me gives an indication about the paranoia level behind the people that have put up that website. I am sure that drinking exessive milk like I do could be bad for your health LOL, but come on. I agree that the cows have to have their space and healthy enviroment in order to produce the toxin free milk ..... I know that that is not always the case. Or maybe we get a healthy dose of antibiotics in our milk because the cows are give A-B shots,.... anyway, it hasent killed me so far and still enjoy milk very much. I mean even the cows on most farms want be milked,..... they know exactly when and where to be to milked. They are milk cows,..... selectivly bread to produce more milk.... besides milk has been drunk for thousands of years by numerous cultures around teh world. I think being vegan is totally cool,..... but sometimes.... he he he I eat everyting - cept maybe real yucky stuff like 'chicken liver'... anyway - peace! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zu Posted February 28, 2004 One thing that worries me is how you can make a strong glue using milk and vinegar. I hope milk and stomach acid don't make for an even sronger glue. I do, however, use milk on my cereal and in some drinks so I'm obviously not that concerned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chief23 Posted February 28, 2004 Yes the rense page is probably a bit extreme. This was the one I was actually looking for. http://www.milksucks.com But anyway, I personaly think milk is for babies, and cows milk for calves. Alot of people dont realise that cows are impregnatated so that they can produce milk. Sorry for hi-jacking this thread. Chief Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stroodes Posted February 28, 2004 In reply to milk/stomache acid glue... im assuming that the curds produced from the mixture stay disolved. It would need to be neutralised first with a base in order to form a glue. And my opinion on milk... it tastes too damn good to give up! (i REALLY dont like the taste of soy milk by itself) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest d0tb0y Posted February 29, 2004 Or you could all just drink chai which is better for you than green tea OR coffee. i am convinced chai has actually cleared up a medical condition that I had. $6.50 for 100 tea bags vs $$$$$ for MRI, blood tests, naturopathy appointments, medication... go figure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted February 29, 2004 both soy milk & cows milk have many pro's & cons. i drink both in moderation. brian-- quote: I mean even the cows on most farms want be milked,..... they know exactly when and where to be to milked. They are milk cows --& that is one ov the sickest cruelist things about the dairy industry. --imagine if woman had been 'artificially' inseminated, aborted, & milked day after day for thousands ov years---i bet they'd have monsterously oversized breasts that were also incredibly painful when full. besides milk has been drunk for thousands of years by numerous cultures around teh world -except most ov asia. homogenised milk is a further health problem. homogenised milk can kill dotboy--i presume you are talking about some "new age health food" version ov chai, because the word "chai" just means tea-from india to china, & the chai drunk in india(although it does vary by region) is commonly about 1/3rd water, 2/3rds milk, 5 teaspoons sugar, 2 teaspoons black tea--per cup; cinnamon, cloves etc, sometimes added while the whole lot is boiled up together before being strained. [ 29. February 2004, 04:35: Message edited by: nabraxas ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted February 29, 2004 PETA < those people are sick fuckoo's with good intentions. To extreme for me. technology I'd rather do without,... but so many things round me seem to be affected by tech, that worrying about everything would be a bigger health problem for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
occidentalis Posted February 29, 2004 What's/who's PETA? I'm not sure if I have a problem with soy beans being pollinated with GM genes.... obviously I wish they weren't - but does this actually have a negative effect on the product or the environment? As I understand most GM soybeans are so to make them roundup tolerant - is this correct? Now, I disagree with this in principle - but why is it a problem for those genes to be in my soybean products? As for chai, I make my own using cinnamon, nutmeg, cardamom, cloves, star anise, ginger, black tea, cows and soy milk, and sugar/honey - it is powerful stuff. I don't drink it at night anymore cos I can't sleep after. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
