I use to sell drugs for a living

[nabraxas]

Actually it is, sorry man. (diamorphine)

pretty sure it's only the UK that gives diamorphine for pain.

Wouldn't the world be better off without heroin? Even if you have a few examples of art and culture inspired by heroin, the costs far outweigh the benefits.

if you're only considering heroin & not opium (which has inspired art & culture for thousands ov years), then there's a small chance i'd agree;

i brought amphetamines into it because you mentioned meth in your original question, also, alcohol has had far more ov a cost to society, would you go for a world without booze?

[MindExpansion]

would you go for a world without booze?

Probably, getting pissed, as far as I can think, doesn't really lend any teachings, or benifit anyone, it might be fun, but if that is its only plus side, and you weigh that up against all the physical damage its done to individuals, to spouse's and children of abusers, to other people around the drunken person, and the financial and social damages it has caused, I just don't think it stacks up.

Peace

[nabraxas]

^ i see your point, but i'd still rather have it around. Maybe it's the Dionysian in me, but despite the personal violence i've experienced i still think the fun outweighs any negative.

Violent, aggressive people would find another excuse to loose their self control if there was no such thing as alcohol, maybe they'd switch to sports like soccer, maybe they would go street drag racing or maybe they would just substitute alcohol for sniffing petrol or huffing butane.

[Legba]

Drunkenness will no longer be a defence or a mitigating factor to a crime in New South Wales, under new proposals being considered by the State Government.

abc.net.au/news/stories

[MindExpansion]

I don't really know why drunkeness ever would have been a factor in your defence.

"Why did you bash that guy?"

"Because I was pissed, so I couldn't control it"

"Oh well then, thats ok, if it was the booze and not you"????

People make the choice to get pissed, so they should accept the consequences of their actions while intoxicated (Unless they've gone psychotic or some such exceptional circumstance), just like getting behind the wheel of a car. "I didn't hit the pedestrian, the car did".

Violent, aggressive people would find another excuse to loose their self control if there was no such thing as alcohol, maybe they'd switch to sports like soccer, maybe they would go street drag racing or maybe they would just substitute alcohol for sniffing petrol or huffing butane.

Yeh I suppose, the people who get agro when they are drunk are probably likely to be the ones who are a bit agro sober anyway, their judgement is probably just that little bit further off point so they overreact and also make poorer calls with less regard for consequence.

Peace

[baphomet]

Bapho, you sure about that?

I'm almost certain it's the case in the UK, but AFAIK docs here are actually pissed that they can't do it because it is so much better than morphine. At any rates, I'll ask someone who knows and get back here.

Peace

Sure about what?

Read undergrounder's post and my post again, no one said anything about Australia. What I said was correct.

EDIT: "without amphetamine all sorts of bands from The Who, to The Ramones to The Clash while they may still have formed & performed, they would never have had that raw energy that really moved us."

"if you're only considering heroin & not opium (which has inspired art & culture for thousands ov years), then there's a small chance i'd agree;i brought amphetamines into it because you mentioned meth in your original question"

The world would be a much better place without meth! I could definitely live with a few less songs from bands that I've hardly even heard of, wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

Edited October 15, 2008 by baphomet

[Undergrounder]

if you're only considering heroin & not opium (which has inspired art & culture for thousands ov years), then there's a small chance i'd agree;

i brought amphetamines into it because you mentioned meth in your original question, also, alcohol has had far more ov a cost to society, would you go for a world without booze?

I think you're right if you get rid of heroin, maybe meth, there's something else that would replace them, since some people will always want the biggest, baddest rush at whatever the cost. But i think having people on opium and speed would be better than heroin and meth.

Interesting question about booze... i'd have to think about it.

I think in the end, we're all humand and our experiences of life are all determined by the chemicals swimming in our head. It is animal nature to want to improve our experiences, and if we can do that through the drug short-cut, then we will. We will always have a drug problem, its just a matter of what drugs and how bad.

[MindExpansion]

I think in the end, we're all humand and our experiences of life are all determined by the chemicals swimming in our head. It is animal nature to want to improve our experiences

Its interesting that its not just humans man. Intoxication has been described as one of the inherent desires along with reproduction and food. Animals in africa have been known to knock fruit off trees and leave it on the ground to ferment, then come back when ready and eat it to get drunk. There are videos around of it, I saw them in a lecture, but its amazing to see that it isn't just an aspect of human consciousness that leads us to seek intoxication.

And as such I certainly agree that it makes no difference which drugs are around, e.g and this is just an example, if meth wasn't around perhaps the crack problem would be bigger (in amezica) or perhaps amphetamines may have grown as a problem here.

Peace

[Undergrounder]

yeah in the end its just a fact of all life. Evolution has determined that the primary drives required for us to survive are heavily reinforced by pleasurable brain stimulations. If it weren't that way we wouldn't be alive. So if we discover a shortcut to stimulate those pleasurable sensations without needing to work for it, we will. Rats will walk across an electrified floor for a few licks of morphine to the point of receiving serious burns, pigeons will peck for 18 hours without break until exhaustion at a button for food on a reward schedule exactly the same as that used in poker machines. It's animal nature and there's a shitload of money to be made from it.

[Vertmorpheus]

If only everyone could try this drug i did once, dude, then like, everything would be so totally FIXED. They'd really SEE then, yknow?

VM

[cactidan]

I am going to post this every where