Another billion questions :P

[Genesis]

Hey guys, just a few questions:

I have been reading up on bulk substrates. If you have a tub that you have already had fruit from how do you induce a second fruiting? I know how to do it with a cake (Dunk and sit in the fridge over night), is it a similar process with a tub? I assume you can't dunk it due to crap floating everywhere but a cold shock for a few days would work, yes?

Also if I have had one or two flushes from a tub can I stall it from fruiting again? I am going overseas for 2 weeks in about a months time and I am expecting fruit before I leave. If I were to just leave the tubs in the dark or leave them covered in my wardrobe would I be able to come back and induce a flush or is there a time limit between flushes? I am worried if I leave them in a fruiting chamber they might get waterlogged or CO2 would build up and kill my mycelium.

What to do, what to do? Cheers for all the help of late guys, I think I may need to make up a nice little edible gift pack for you all, lol

Gen

[Ace]

If you have a tub that you have already had fruit from how do you induce a second fruiting?

Casings can be dunked in the same fashion as cakes (AFAIK), however they might lose some of the substrate in the process. This should be minimal because the myc will hold most (if not all) of it together in a big odd-shaped cake (again, AFAIK). It might be worthwhile adding a new casing layer to them after dunking to keep moisture high and re-invigorate them (I think casing encouraged more pins than standard cakes because of reasons in addition to the extra moisture, however they escape me right now - think it may give the myc more time to colonise a non-nutritious substrate or something that encourages more fruit?).

a cold shock for a few days would work, yes?

Cold shock alone may induce a second fruiting, however the yields will be a little lower without the dunking because of the lack of moisture (muchrooms usually being ~90% water and all). It should be noted that (AFAIK) most commonly cutivated mushrooms will produce more than one fruiting without any real encouragement (as long as variables are kept at optimum). Dunking in the fridge is recommended because it rehydrates the cakes as well as cold shocking - basically re-invigorating the myc to fruit. I'd recommend that over just cold shocking.

if I have had one or two flushes from a tub can I stall it from fruiting again?

It would probably be easier to start the process again when you return - this would surely lead to far better fruition compared to half-spent cakes as well as the difficulty of restarting stalled cakes/casings. If it were really necessary to attempt stalling, I suppose the best way would be to provide lousy conditions in order to encourage them to stall. When you return you could try dunking, cold shock, increased light levels, etc to encourage reanimation, however I think it would be quite a task and probably less effort to restart.

It might be worth noting that there is often a break between flushes (about a week to a fortnight between harvest and new pinset from memory) and it usually takes around a week to 10 days for pins to get to harvestable size (depending on strains, species, etc), so you might be able to time your harvests right so that when you return you will have a fresh harvest to do. I've seen pics of people's PF cakes (and casings) left in high humidity with minimal light (out of neglect and carelessness)fruiting enormous (from lower light levels and time till harvest), fluffy (from high humidity and no air exchange) fruits that were perfectly fine for consumption (though one should always inspect for contamination!). Some species are so keen to do their own thing they will just make do with what they have - even if they aren't the best of conditions. You may strike lucky and encounter the same thing as the people with the neglected cakes/casings, if the timing is right.

I am worried if I leave them in a fruiting chamber they might get waterlogged or CO2 would build up and kill my mycelium.

Waterlogging isn't much of an issue, however it can encourage certain contaminants that may prey on the myc (not the substrate). Generally, the myc will be resiliant enough to fend for itself and make good use of the excess water/humidity. CO2 doesn't seem to be a huge issue with some of the neglected fruitings I've read about. The cakes/casings wont fruit as much as they may in ideal conditions but they will often still put out a couple fruits (and certainly beats a kick in the crotch!).

Another billion questions

Haha, keep em coming (I only read 3 or 4 q's in this thread ) - I love a bit of revision It's a great way to raise issues and see what others have done (or have read about) as well as generating discussion.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Ace

[MindExpansion]

Could one put a little pot plant in a fruiting chamber to suck up some CO2?

Just a general idea i had the other day but there are probably reasons why it wouldn't work.

Peace

Edit: Perhaps even use the fruiting chamber for seedlings to both absorb CO2 and provide the seedlings with good humidity?

Edited October 8, 2008 by MindExpansion

[Ace]

Could one put a little pot plant in a fruiting chamber to suck up some CO2?

A novel idea - the only downside I could imagine might be the increased chances of contams on the cakes. That shouldn't be a huge issue if the cakes are fully colonised however and might be worth a shot. No other issues that I can think of ATM, however there may be some reasons why its not often seen (I've certainly never seen/heard of it being done). Great suggestion IMO

[Genesis]

Could one put a little pot plant in a fruiting chamber to suck up some CO2?

That's a really good idea, I have some plants just sprouting/ready to sprout, I might give it a go.

Thanks for the info ace, all helpfull. I might try a little experiment... Yesterday I made 3 small tubs up using the bulk substrate tek that Hyphalknot wrote up. Hopefully all three take, are free from contams and are able to fruit. If they do (Fingers crossed) I might leave one in the incubator while I am gone, one deprived of light and humidity then introduce it back into optimal conditions and the last I will dunk and chill it then try and fruit then compare all three.

This should give me the answer for future reference.

I think I am a little hesitant to deviate from teks to much, I am sure if I experimented more I could answer most of my questions for myself. I guess that's half the fun of the hobby.

Cheers guys,

Gen

[Hyphal]

I am sure if I experimented more I could answer most of my questions for myself. I guess that's half the fun of the hobby.

Amen to that!

Good luck with your experiment. The only things I would add are that if you over incubate a casing you may find it contaminate with bacteria or excrete too many metabolites, and cold shocking has shown to do nothing more than stall growth for *some* species, while for others it is needed to trigger fruiting. For gold topped dung dwellers, it is not necessary.

[misteek]

I know how to do it with a cake (Dunk and sit in the fridge over night)

i did not know thats how you did it!!!! could you please share some more details? i always assumed that the cakes would take care of everything themselves. so after a cake has already put out 3 or 4 sets of fruit, you could then dunk it in water and leave it in the fridge overnight and it might put some more fruits out? i would've thought by that stage it'd just give in to contams.

i like the extra co2 for seedlings idea! i might give this a go with a few different things and see how it goes.

[Ace]

so after a cake has already put out 3 or 4 sets of fruit, you could then dunk it in water and leave it in the fridge overnight and it might put some more fruits out?

For the best flushes, I think its recommended to do it after each harvest. If you dont have time or CBF'ed, then after every two or three harvests should help increase yields.

could you please share some more details?

The SE should yield some more info, however the basic process is to place your cakes in a big bowl/bucket of cold water, ensure they stay underwater (I think they float so a heavy plate or something would help keep them submirsed), place in fridge (or somewhere very cold) overnight and then take out after about 12 hrs (dont leave more than 24hrs unles you want dead cakes - the myc will drown after a certain point with no fresh air). Chuck the cakes back in the fruiting tubs and resume regular fruiting tasks (fanning, misting (never directly onto cakes), contam inspections, etc). I think I remember reading that the cakes should be dried off with paper towel before putting back in terrarium to prevent contams but SE would be able to confirm one way or another

i would've thought by that stage it'd just give in to contams.

They usually seem to just dehydrate and lose vigour after 3-4 flushes, however the dunking method increases their capabilities another 1-3 flushes (all dependent on the myc/strain/species). It inreases their flushes as well as usually produces better fruit so is definately worth it.

[Hyphal]

Good advice Ace. The only thing that I want to add is that the fridge is not really necessary and makes no noticeable difference, but doesn't hurt either.

[Ace]

the fridge is not really necessary and makes no noticeable difference, but doesn't hurt either.

Good to know! I was under the impression that cold shock was half of the reason for dunking (as well as rehydrating)? I suppose cold water in a cool place is going to do that anyway. Does cold shock help for the species that are most often used in the PFtek, or is there really no benefits at all in doing it? Maybe one should stick to saving fridge space and dunking in a laundry/spare room/where ever there's space?

[Hyphal]

Its been found to do nothing more than slow down the growth of the next flush by a day or two. Dunking anywhere is fine, and should definitely be done between each flush to improve the fruit size - our friends are 90% water, there's only so much a cake can hold. Dunking and then rolling in sterilised, moist verm is even better as the verm acts as an extra reservoir for the cake to draw moisture from, and provides a moist micro-climate on the surface of the cake for pins to form.

After dunking, make sure you give the cakes a good old rinse under the tap to clean off any mould spores or bacteria that may be trying to get a foothold.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Hyphalknot

[Genesis]

Hyphalknot, your are a constant source of knowledge. I have just thrown together a bulk substrate grow as outlined in your pinned thread. Any advice as to how long one should leave the trays at room temp before they are fully colonized? It has been a day and a half and I had to have a look *Impatient*. I notices some extra white fur but nothing special (I probably just introduced contams). Your tek is lacking certain details. Also I would love to convert it to PDF if you are interested...?

Gen

[Hyphal]

Thanks Gen. Wait up to a week - the pre- fuzz is just what you want after 1.5 days. In a week, you will be a happy man, no more peeking and be careful of the mean green.

PDF convert away - I am off overseas for a year so if there is anything you think should be added go nuts, there is already a few points I want to change anyway.

[naja naja]

And I am sure although u will be over seas, you will still visit us online right! Hyphal!

Sad and happy. Sad u will be gone for so long. SO many good doof memories and the laksa's ahhh the laksa's. Happy for u and co, hope u have a great time and stay safe! I want u back here in one piece! Huge luvs and hugs. I'm gona miss u man! NYE this year will be lacking in the hyphal and hyphette company. Hope I can convince my lady to come to a doof for NYE.