Petition for civil liberties

[reptyle]

Here is a petition.

I will file it as soon as I've traveled around Australia and collected 50,001 signatures.

I am at this point going to start collecting signatures.

This petition will be available for download and can be printed and filled out by whoever wishes to contribute.

You will find an address to return them to at the bottom of the page

Sincerely Christos Salmon.

CivilLibertiesPetitionSignaturePage.doc

CivilLibertiesPetitionSignaturePage.doc

CivilLibertiesPetitionSignaturePage.doc

Edited September 4, 2008 by reptyle

[reptyle]

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[notguilty]

Combine threads?

The idea is gathering a lot of interest on other forums as well.

Some agreement needs to be reached on if chemicals are included in the petition?

My personal opinion (feel free to attack this, the cops do) is that only plants, herbs and naturally occuring substances be included.

I think it's very important to get this right the first time, so I propose a consultation period of two months for people to offer opinions?

Already division has begun with some only wanting cannabis included.

A main point that should be outlined is that the war on drugs has failed! prohibition is ruining the lives of thousands.

Response to further emails

1. According to standing orders, petitions must have a signature. While

on many occasions, spaces are provided on petitions for Name, Address

and Signature, in fact it's only the signatures which are required.

2. Petitions may be treated differently in various jurisdictions,

including their treatment as a public document. In the House of

Representatives, petitions are not made public. Only the 'terms' of

petitions are published; no details of either principal petitioners or

signatories are made public after they are received by the House.

Of course, this would not assuage your concerns of protecting privacy:

- if the petition was 'open' for signature where signatures (and

possibly personal information such as addresses) could be viewed by

others (e.g. if the petition sits on a shop counter or in a public

place); or

- if the petition was set up by an individual or organisation who wished

to actively collect personal information for their own purposes prior to

the petition's submission to the House (for example, some organisations

petition as part of a campaign on an issue, and collect details of

signatories for ongoing contact).

I hope this helps - please let me know if you have any further queries.

Kind regards

Julia Morris

Edited September 3, 2008 by entheofarm

[Yeti101]

I don't know if the wording on the petition is ideal. I'm at work today and I've got a cold, so I'll have to get back to you with a more useful contribution. Bottom line is that I think that it will be difficult to get that petition to 50 K signatures and I don't know how the pollies would take it either. This isn't to say that I totally disagree with anything on it, but you need to think about what would stop people from signing it.

Some people here will balk the inclusion of chemicals. Some people (particularly conservatives) will balk at 'all liberties'. Some people will freak out when they see the word 'Sacred'. It's tricky.

As for the "just Cannabis" option, (how can I put this diplomatically?), I won't support that. Not because I don't support legalisation. I won't support that because if you are only interested in legalising cannabis that's a bit unfair on the rest of us who don't use it but are interested in other things and (more importantly) because I think that the idea that if you can legalise cannabis then everything else will follow is based on flawed reasoning.

By the way, I'm playing devils advocate because I want this to work, please don't take any of my feedback personally.

[reptyle]

Multiple petitions can be set up if some people still think they have the rights to restrict freewill.

personally as an alchemist i am only aiming for access to all substances of the earth. plant, animal and mineral.

All i want to know is are these words suffice to acheive such a goal.

Consider it a race if you will. First to 50,001 signatures who liberates the most sections of society from the Terror being experienced and annoying limitations on access to things such as mercury and GHB, gets a pat on the back and probably gets to have an excellent amount of fun meeting 100,000 people along the way.

I reason that such a venture could be completed in under a year.

"hello, i am an alchemist working on a personal journey to achieve the philosophers stone. Transmuting the social structural aspect of one of my higher self's personalities is a vital aspect of the path to perfection, would you help me by signing this document such that i can petition myself to change myself...please..."

interesting conversation follows and everyone walks away with a little more bounce in their step...

How many birds are their in a flock of Ibis?

So what do you think about the wording? Is stricken the right word... Should i say legislation instead of law...

hows this sound>>>

"This petition of the community of Australia draws to the attention of the House the direct impingement of the freewill of a sovereign citizen within the Commonwealth under God, in regards to access, use, experimentation and manifestation of wealth and belief involving plants and chemicals of a medicinal nature. It is the request of the undersigned that all liberties be returned to the individual and that correct administration be implemented to assist in dealing with supply, regulation and education so as to return the Sacred elements of life to the Trusted Citizen of the Commonwealth.

We request that all standing legislation prohibiting possession, cultivation, distribution and importation be removed from Federal and State Law and completely re-drafted, such that personal growth and a viable marketplace may be enabled and established and the fear of persecution be alleviated."

I think this is better, i think ill go with this...let me know if you see any major design flaws.

Peacefully,

Christos.

see you in Parliament House in a a few months i suppose.

Edited September 4, 2008 by reptyle

[Yeti101]

Multiple petitions can be set up if some people still think they have the rights to restrict freewill.

personally as an alchemist i am only aiming for access to all substances of the earth. plant, animal and mineral.

Consider it a race if you will. First to 50,001 signatures who liberates the most sections of society from the Terror being experienced......

I'm inclined to agree. I don't think there is a massive problem with more than one petition going at a time, so long there aren't dozens and we aren't competing for signatures. If one 50k petition is good, then 2 that are broadly related hitting parliament withing a few months of each other might be even better.

See you at the finish line!

[ballzac]

Combine threads?

The idea is gathering a lot of interest on other forums as well.

Some agreement needs to be reached on if chemicals are included in the petition?

My personal opinion (feel free to attack this, the cops do) is that only plants, herbs and naturally occuring substances be included.

I think it's very important to get this right the first time, so I propose a consultation period of two months for people to offer opinions?

Already division has begun with some only wanting cannabis included.

If it's only Cannibis, I think it is pointless. There is already a large movement based on legalisation of Cannibis. This must be something different if it going to succeed or change anyone's opinions. I believe it should cover all substances. Ethically, we should have the same freedom to ingest synthetic chemicals as natural chemicals. From a harm minimisation perspective, it may be even more important to legalise the synthetic/refined chemicals. The only reason I can think of to only include natural, plant-based chemicals, is political...i.e. it may get more signitures and more likely to be given thought by lawmakers/the wider community. Also, making a division is tricky. How do you determine when something goes from natural to synthetic? A poppy pod is obviously natural. Opium is natural but partly refined. Morphine is refined. Diacetyl morphine (Heroin) is synthetic. At which point do you draw the line, and does it make a huge difference? If morphine is legal and heroin is illegal, then what are the implications? A whole host of complex issues arise, including increased availability of precursors. To most of us, I don't think many of us think any of this would be a bad thing, but we would be sending mixed messages. People will know that legalising all natural substances could increase the availability of unnatural substances, or make it harder to prosecute those who wish to synthesise chemicals using natural precursors, so they may be reluctant to sign or take notice. If we are honest from the get-go and say that all psychoactive chemicals should be legalised for both ethical and utilitarian purposes, I think there is actually more chance of being taken seriously. Legalisation of some things would not be much better than the legalisation of some things that we have at the moment, so it puts holes all through most of our best arguments for legalisation.

[Ace]

Due to all the division between individuals even within this community, maybe it be a good idea to maybe do a poll to see what the majority of people here think would be the most ideal thing to petition for? It's also worth mentioning that decriminalisation and legalising are different things.

E.g.

Complete decriminalisation of all currently illegal substances

Complete legalising of all currently illegal substances

Legalising cannabis only

Decriminalising cannabis only

Legalising all plants, no man-made substances (including extracts, etc)

Decriminalising all plants, no man-made substances (including extracts, etc)

Etc.

It just seems irresponsible and reckless to start handing out petitions to be signed off when nobody is even in agreement here. How are the people to sign something that doesnt cover everything, or has huge holes in it?

Personally, I think everything should be decriminalised but regulated (e.g. plants can be grown [perhaps within certain number limits], but amphets, pills, opiates, etc should be only available through a chemist with prescription - or somthing along those lines). However coming to agreement on how each substance/plant/chem/etc should be regulated is a massive job in itself and one that needs very careful thought.

Just a bit of food for thought, but some serious thought needs to be put in before putting things to those in power. I think a poll would be a great way to at least understand what the figures are here, perhaps even putting polls on other non-entheogen related forums (maybe those dealing with other substances, health forums, etc). Just an idea

[notguilty]

Again just my opinion and it changes constantly (i'm only human)

critique as much as possible as it generates friutful discussions.

* No it should not only be cannabis

* Yes it should include all natural things

* No I don't support the free use of ALL chemicals.

* two seperate issues being religous rights and free rights

* I will not enter into division and competitions, I will support any common sense petition for free rights

It is interesting to note that many have said "sedtion 116 of the constitution protects our religous rights", It also protects us from having religous observance forced upon us, State drug laws may be unconstitutional as they have placed restrictions on peoples rights to explore religous experiences. Not the annointing oil argument. Say if I decided I wanted to join a religion that used peyote as a sacrament, under the constitution I am free to do this as long as it has no negative social impact on society, under Qld law I would be arrested for possesing peyote. The constitution also states when there is a conflict in state and commonwealth law the constitution prevails.

So it is possible to petition the Commonwealth to abolish state drug laws on these grounds. You don't have to be religous but you need to believe that you have rights to freedom of religion and FROM it.

Ace I agree with you, it is one thing to gather 50,000 signatures and another to make the right impact. That is why I have suggested a two month period to gather opinions and feedback.

Can it be agreed that a key point that should be made on the petition is that the war on drugs has failed and prohibition itself is ruining lives.

Edited September 4, 2008 by entheofarm

[reptyle]

Well I'm going to start collecting as of right now.

The finished petition is available for download at the top of the page.

Feel free to print it and return it to the address at the bottom of the page and let me know if you wuld like reimbursement for costs incurred.

Peacefully.

Christos Salmon.

Let the games begin, again.

[Yeti101]

It's also worth mentioning that decriminalisation and legalising are different things.

It's very important to mention that - and it's why I think Reptyle's petition is going to hit some snags.

I think Ace makes a good point on the range of options that exist for changing the current approach to scheduling and drug laws. But I'm not sure how harmful a reckless petition could be to the overall push for change. They could effect the credibility of subsequent efforts. But, if they are more extreme or stronger in their demands, they can make more moderate proposals seem palatable. Eg a petition for total legalisation and deregulation of everything makes a petition for decriminalisation and/or limited and regulated legalisation seem like a compromise. Could go either way. In any case, if someone is motivated enough to start collecting signatures, nothing we are going to say is going to stop them, and nor should it as that activity is their right.

While the traditional use of plants aspect is important, I'm not sure how much traction it has by itself. And if you limit it to natural products then you rule out things like LSD and MDMA (obviously). There is a lot to consider and I'm all for consultation. But people here are very attached to their viewpoints and I worry that we would never come to a consensus or even a compromise - but I would love for the community to prove me wrong.

No I don't support the free use of ALL chemicals.

Which is good, because the phrase "free use" is going to lose you the support from most moderate reformers as well as handing ammunition to the conservative spin machine.

* two separate issues being religious rights and free rights

Perhaps, I suspect they are linked at their core, but splitting them up might help get support from different sectors of the community.

As for section 116 of the constitution - It is my understanding that it isn't going to be any help to us. Now I know what that it says that the Commonwealth: "shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth. ", and you would think that it translates to religious freedom, but the courts don't quite interpret it that way. I'll elaborate later when I've got the time.

[reptyle]

Ok, so if I get all the signatures does that mean they have to do what the petition requests or just that they will think about maybe talking about it one day?

And if i describe medicinal as any substance and subsequent activity which brings joy and laughter into my life is that sufficient to blanket me mixing say a little piece of the moon, a gram of mercury and 5 ounces of any kind of salt together and heating it inside all the glassware that also should be freely available to me to produce the hypothetically and highly metaphor driven end product...whatever that may be. artistically speaking.

and i would like to know what you mean by reckless...do you mean i haven't outlined a sufficient list of complex categories under which to direct attentions? Just for a laugh, how would you interpret if you were a member of the P House.

also isn't it obvious that the only reasonable thing is for the Government to actually facilitate the WANT AND NEED of the individual and not to limit them for some supposedly superior judgment which in glaring obviousness doesn't stand up to the test of time. unless the government is a monarchy in which case then what happens? would i have to get 50,000 more signatures saying people want to disband into lots of tiny colonies and then fight a civil war or what?

Concentration camp of plant and chemical users. But they were oh so sure they deserved it...

I suppose in reality it makes no difference whether the Government is petitioned or not, we can do what we want...until we cant...but it'd be pretty happy day to count the 50,000th person and see where you had been regardless so...i shall proceed.

The real problem is i do honestly believe that the only medicine God would prescribe would be laughter. All the other things we do are merely to facilitate a mind state under which we may be able to recognise the humour.

peace.

[notguilty]

reptyle have you contacted the standing committee on petitions? Contact details here somewhere, they recommend contacting them first.

I wish you all the best but I feel your reluctance to allow a consultation period is an indication you are doing this for you and not us.

[reptyle]

It is being done.

Doing and not doing are relative.

3 pages and counting.

I'll keep an updated number of how many signatures are collected here.

Have fun meeting people and discussing the statement.

Love and blessings.

[reptyle]

Download the petition and print it and sign it and send it!!!

The faster this all goes the better...

Edited September 5, 2008 by reptyle

[reptyle]

5 Pages.

Download it, Print it, sign it and send it.

With love,

Christos.

[notguilty]

reptyle, I look forward to signing your petition however you may need to start again if you have not met the following, which was supplied by the petitions committee, which is also a contradiction as (and I may be wrong, it happened once) they previously told me it was only the signature that was required not the full name?

Also something niall made me think about was what is the end goal? I had initially canvassed the idea to petition the Council for Civil Liberties for support but petitioning the house directly will have faster results and MAY have the support of the CCL?

I just hope they don't knock your petition back on a technicality.

nice work though

"If you are going to proceed with the petition, please make sure it is

addressed to the Speaker and Members of the House of Representatives;

that you include your full contact details and signature as principal

petitioner on the first page; and that all names and signatures

(addresses are not necessary) are originals (ie not photocopies) and are

on pages with the request at the top.

Please let us know if you need any further assistance.

Cheers

Joanne Towner

Secretary

Petitions Committee"

[MindExpansion]

You may be better using the petition as part of a larger argument, I don't want to type out my views on what should be legal and how it should be made legal as I've discussed it at length in the 'Legalising Sally D' thread.

So perhaps, rather than handing in the petition itself, you could hand it in as part of a report which may outline detailed changes to the current legislation, and reasoning behind those changes.

Peace,

Mind

[reptyle]

I'm sure i meet all the requirements. It just needs signatures from existent humans.

Eventual goal? That we may have access to information and materials free of fear. That i may interact with matter in a healing way. That God may be understood through the process of change.

What more could i ask for?

OrderoftheGnosticSacrament.org

updated regularly...

blessings...Christos.

[Smiling Cloud]

Enteofarm, I think that because reptyle has included ALL chemicals rather than restricting it to what you, and of course others, think is an appropriate proposal means that he is obviously doing this for all. Just because you think that you do not need access to all available chemicals does not mean that the next person does not. And what is natural? A bee takes the pollen and turns it into honey, is this so different from a man taking safrole and turning it into MDMA?

I think what reptyle is doing is very noble in an age of fear, whether or not it will do anything remains to be seen, but it think he should be applauded for even taking on such a daunting task, 50 000 is ALOT of people.

[notguilty]

Enteofarm, I think that because reptyle has included ALL chemicals rather than restricting it to what you, and of course others, think is an appropriate proposal means that he is obviously doing this for all. Just because you think that you do not need access to all available chemicals does not mean that the next person does not. And what is natural? A bee takes the pollen and turns it into honey, is this so different from a man taking safrole and turning it into MDMA?

I think what reptyle is doing is very noble in an age of fear, whether or not it will do anything remains to be seen, but it think he should be applauded for even taking on such a daunting task, 50 000 is ALOT of people.

I have not restricted anything, I have stated my views as others have, I agree everything should be legal and from that safe and sensible regulations can be put in place.

I also applaude reptyles efforts and encourage and support him on his actions, the information supplied was to assist his cause not shoot it down

So I am not sure where the F#@K your coming from?

I'll say it again, Nice work reptyle.

EDIT:

actually smiling cloud I suggest you do some more research! I will refrain from abusing you at this stage!

reptyle, are you on the road yet? let us know when your heading north.

Edited September 13, 2008 by entheofarm

[Re-Grifter]

I think cannabis is going to legalised or at least the penalties reduced for possession/recreational consumption to on the spot fines only as soon as the oil situation becomes critical.

EVERYONE DRIVE GAS-GUZZLERS!!

[reptyle]

i think you have a very valid point there gifted one.. Attentions being focused by the lense that is the media seem to play a large factor in reducing the "panic" large groups of peple will feel when they have to figure out how to pay for a new car and or very expensive petrol. Cannabis would provide the perfect relaxation from this experience whilst also being useful for ethanol production and other fuels.

Praise be to the mother plant, gateway, opener of the eye of possibilities and alleviator of fear of alteration, given to mankind to bring happiness and joy, perfect medicine, miracle food, source of life energy.

regards travel...i have just had a flash of inspiration...i think ishall create a new page to indicate where and when i will be at certain times, maybe post it here as well. would be bonza to catch up with ya'lls.

peacefully. CSLMN

[Smiling Cloud]

Whoa entheofarm, why would you want to abuse me?

I read this

I feel your reluctance to allow a consultation period is an indication you are doing this for you and not us

and thought it didn't make sense, if he includes all chemicals then he is including everyone who may need to use those chemicals, even if you don't.

No it should not only be cannabis

* Yes it should include all natural things

* No I don't support the free use of ALL chemicals.

* two seperate issues being religous rights and free rights

* I will not enter into division and competitions, I will support any common sense petition for free rights

And i read the above when it still had the part about not including unnatural (or maybe man-made? )chemicals and was questioning what unnatural is. We humans have an instinct to explore and understand our environment which has led to the invention of some marvellous things, including some great chemmies. Our instinct to explore and understand was what first brought early humans to the plants. And as humans have evolved and so have our medicines, not always for the best but that is the nature of evolution.

Nothing to get fired up about entheo farm.

[Re-Grifter]

Did anyone in Melbourne see the news report about the sniffer dog they use on people in the city?

They had all these lovely revenue bringing, system sustaining arrests, mainly for cannabis.......

Yeah, that will keep the violence down, good job?!?!....

This society makes me f**ing nauseous.