Ecstasy 'safer' than binge drinking

[occidentalis]

I have been debating whether or not to email "Adelaide PhD student Emily Jaehne" (why the hell did they contact her for a comment?) to bring up a couple of points... I think I'll leave it for now but if anyone else wants to, please make sure you are civil and rational...

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queen...sbanetimes:top5

Young Queenslanders would be safer if they swore off binge drinking and instead consumed a small amount of ecstasy, a prominent researcher at Queensland's Alcohol and Drug Research Centre (QADREC) says.

In the wake of new data which shows more young Queenslanders are switching to ecstasy following the Rudd Government's 70 per cent tax hike on alcopops, QADREC director Professor Jake Najman said ecstasy was actually a "lesser evil" than binge drinking.

However, the statement brought a stinging rebuke from another researcher, who cited the 1995 death of Sydney schoolgirl Anna Wood after she took an ecstasy pill at a dance party.

Professor Najman, who has a PhD in Social Epidemiology and a Bachelor's degree (Hons) in Medical Sociology, said ecstasy was "relatively benign if taken in small quantities".

"When young people switch from a substantial amount of alcohol to a small amount of ecstasy ... I don't think that's a bad trade at all," Professor Najman said.

"It is not likely that one pill on a Saturday night poses the same dangers as frequent binge drinking."

Illicit drug use is associated with around 1000 deaths per year in Australia. However, Professor Najman said ecstasy was actually "cheaper and safer" for young people than excessive amounts of alcohol.

"Even drug-related problems, including psychotic episodes and violent behaviour are not seen with ecstasy, as they are with amphetamines and alcohol," he said.

Professor Najman's comments drew scorn from University of Adelaide PhD student Emily Jaehne, who said ecstasy was often laced with potentially lethal substances such as the nerve-numbing horse tranquilliser ketamine, morphine, anti-anxiety medication and a substance used to treat dogs and cats for incontinence.

Ms Jaehne said MDMA, ecstasy's major chemical component, increased body temperature by up to five degrees.

"When taken at hot nightclubs or rave parties the heightened effects could lead to severe brain damage or death," Ms Jaehne said.

She said it was crucial people were made more aware of the "grave" dangers associated with the pills, and "not misguided by ridiculous information".

Anna Wood died after taking ecstasy and dehydrating so badly that she drank water until her kidneys shut down and her brain swelled. She was found vomiting in a toilet, taken to a home and put to bed before eventually being taken to hospital the next morning. She never regained consciousness.

Annabel Catt, 20, died in February last year after going to a dance party and taking what she thought was ecstasy. It actually turned out to be the deadly drug PMA.

Anecdotal evidence suggesting young Australians have now discovered the benefits of buying ecstasy pills in bulk, has strengthened criticism of the Rudd Government's alcopop tax hike.

Distilled Spirits Industry Council of Australia research manager Stephen Riden said recent data made a mockery of the Government's stated aim.

"The words 'abject failure' would spring to mind," Mr Riden said.

[Genesis]

Funny thing is the whole "Alchopop" tax making young Aussies switch to drugs is 100 percent true. My mate bought one slab of Woodie's, came to my joint and proclaimed after it was finished he was done with cans and was moving to pills as it was to expensive.

Between the 2am lockout (Which I heard is getting the arse) and the Alchopop tax the youth of Melbourne are turning to MDMA by the droves. Good thing I am a wine drinker :D

I don't know about making the switch being a good one but I have seen a lot of people doing a lot of damage to them selves with/on booze. Whether that be short or long term.

Ever seen a happy raver punch through a window? Break their hands on the ground in a drunken fit of anger? No...

I have however got some really great shoulder rubs from pill poppers haha

Gen

*Edit: Spelling*

Edited September 2, 2008 by Genesis

[MindExpansion]

Professor Najman's comments drew scorn from University of Adelaide PhD student Emily Jaehne, who said ecstasy was often laced with potentially lethal substances such as the nerve-numbing horse tranquilliser ketamine, morphine, anti-anxiety medication and a substance used to treat dogs and cats for incontinence.

Hmmmm....so the biggest problem with MDMA in her mind, is that a pill might have other stuff in it....oh wait, by gosh I've solved this difficult puzzle. We produce it in a legal and non-clandestine manner, then we sell it to them. Wow...how complex, no wonder they haven't thought about it yet.

She said it was crucial people were made more aware of the "grave" dangers associated with the pills, and "not misguided by ridiculous information".

Oh and...why is there so much ridiculous information...that's right, because we can't give out quite enough info without seeming too soft. So we give out some, and let other sources, which may or may not be reliable, cover it. Then when kids don't know enough to be safe (even though fatality rates when MDMA is the sole contributor are VERY SMALL(will get figures later and edit them in if i remember, have them stored somewhere), we blame the poor information, rather than the lack of the good.

Interesting article, the evolution is happening.

Peace,

Mind

[Yawning Man]

However, the statement brought a stinging rebuke from another researcher, who cited the 1995 death of Sydney schoolgirl Anna Wood after she took an ecstasy pill at a dance party.

It seems some conservative people are scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to come up with arguments against drug use. Anna Wood died over 10 years ago and (sadly for her family) seems to be the only largely publicised case of a person dying from ectasy. While people are continually dying from alcohol related accidents etc. Is hypocritical the right word? These people are so concerned for the health of young people using drugs but are happy to turn a blind eye to the damage of alcohol on people and society?

Annabel Catt, 20, died in February last year after going to a dance party and taking what she thought was ecstasy. It actually turned out to be the deadly drug PMA.

Pill testing. Another intelligent idea dropped by politicians.

 

cheers

Edited September 2, 2008 by peaceful_son

[Vertmorpheus]

" My mate bought one slab of Woodie's, came to my joint and proclaimed after it was finished he was done with cans and was moving to pills as it was to expensive."

Is that indicating anything other than not owning a calculator, though? Surely a couple bottles of cheaparse bourbon and a few bottles of coke is a slightly more sensible choice than going from cannies to pills, in terms of effects? Buy a still, or make one.

Not anti e, that just didn't make any sense to me. Like saying buds cost too much, I'll start taking speed... yeah, youre fucked up either way but in just about opposite ways, barring some overlap of pleasure and reward-sensation.

I think it's a bit easy to put the boot into drinking too, really. Yes, it does cause tremendous amounts of damage, we all know that. Can be lethal, ra ra ra. But it's the same issue as any other drug... the people that attract attention are usually doing something stupid or dangerous. Too much alcohol is bad for you, no shit. So just... I don't know... learn to drink properly? If someone honestly is self-abusive in the sense of not learning from LAST weekend to go a lil slower this time round... do we really want them with a big bag of pills (not to mention the rest of the stuff the dealers of same tend to stock)... anything is dangerous if in large enough amounts, but whereas alcohol most of the time youre spewing before youre in real trouble, its just too easy to decide to take an extra couple pills. Or the pills and then, get onto the drinks anyway.

Itd be SAFER if people could just get high without getting smashed and get chilled out without stopping breathing... it's always too easy to blame the substance rather than the dickheads that misuse it, esp when those dickheads are just about the majority of the population it seems.

I love a drink, never gone out and punched anyone , raped anyone, driven drunk, anything. Taken e too, didn't die, didn't end up having unprotected orgiastiac sex with diseased strangers, havent developed alzheimers or massive depression. To say that one is inherently safer than the other is a bit daft, they are very different things with whole swags of related issues and variables.

not to mention that personally, wheras binge drinking last I heard was 4 or more drinks in one session and most people I know can have 4 drinks no worries at all and be no danger to anyone or themselves... I have seen more than a few people end up extremely fucked up, higher than they wanted, expected, spun out, obviously not well despite doing all the right things etc, off single pills. Pills, that is, not "pure" by any means. Lets face it ,the average breezer swilling teenybopper is just going to buy whatever is around and whatever the cool wise mate says is the one to get this week. And if theyre in the habit of drinking way too much, theyre not suddenly going to be developing the most sensible patterns of use overnight.

Some weird shit to say, really... as right as it isn't, kind of thing.

VM

[MindExpansion]

I agree with a lot of what you say VM.

All psychoactives, from panadol to e, to heroin, to ice, to speed, to ghb, lsd, mushrooms, cactus (you get the idea) can be dangerous. Zinberg was spot on...drug, set and setting. What you are using (each drug has different inherent risks), how you are using it (both route of administration and HOW you use it, e.g eating heaps of mushrooms to trip will result in a different, not necessarily worse, experience to approaching it spiritually), how you feel when you use it, history with the drug etc, and where you use it will all effect the experience.

You can be irresponsible with heroin and you can be irresponsible with asprin, or alcohol.

And I agree that some people are just stupid with their choices, but I personally actually think it is easier to be stupid with alcohol than pills (for this statement i assume pure MDMA rather than the mixed up shit often found in pills).

Drinking too much is easy, particularly if you drink spirits or do a lot of sculling for whatever reason. It is also easy to assume that alcohol isn't too dangerous if you drink too much. A few years ago, the idea of having an acute issue with alcohol other than throwing up sounded fairly unlikely. But it happens all the time.

With pills, it is about caution just the same as alcohol. Play it safe. This is where people fail as well.

They assume that because they had good times on 3 green apples, they should eat three crowns the week after. They don't think that the dose might be 3 times higher in the crowns, or that there might be something else in the crowns.

This lack of caution is a problem, just like with alcohol.

The other problem is the lack of proper introduction to the drugs. For example, where as more cautious users will tell a mate who is going to try pills for their first time to try half first, even if they can eat 5 because of tolerance. They will advise caution over recklessness. Offer advice, like when the mate comes to you 20 minutes after taking the first half complaining that it hasn't done anything, not advising them to eat the other half straight away.

Just like any other drug. You don't give someone who has never tried LSD before 300 mics straight away for example. And before they take anything you explain the effects of the drug, and give pointers on safe use.

Anyway, I think most of what I just typed is likely to be repetitive stuff but in summary, it is difficult if not impossible to associate any one drug with less risk than other, because set and setting are just as important to the experience than drug. Along with many other factors such as experience, introduction, education and level of caution used.

Peace,

Mind

[MindExpansion]

Oh, and what I meant to ask too was if anyone watched Sunrise this morning when they had a doctor come on to talk about the paper. Well he basically kicked dirt all over it, indirectly of course, and not citing anything but his personal experiences in the emergency room. But MDMA is the sole contributor to death in such a small number of drug related death (I have the actual figures around somewhere, will post later), and he didn't specify this at all, nor did they specify that MDMA is not necessarily the only thing in a pill. What also pissed me off to no end was their repeated use of the statement 'Illicit drugs are responsible for 1000 deaths a year.' Without going into any specifics about which drugs, and under what circumstances. They also neglected to mention that this accounted for 3% of drug related deaths a year. With tobacco attributing more than alcohol, and alcohol still contributing many times more significantly than illicit drugs. (Again, have stats somewhere, will find them when time allows.) They don't go out of there way to mention that cigarette's kill 50% of their users eventually. I was very very angry.

Peace,

Mind

[Vertmorpheus]

I reckon almost regardless of the details, a thousand deaths a year from something as broad as "illegal drugs" is actually pretty good going. I think more people probably die a year from falling over, eating shit food their whole lives or being overworked... time to make rickety stairs, drive thru and 60 hour weeks illegal hey?

VM

[MindExpansion]

Hehehe never know, after all this stink about that enourmous HJ's burger that gives me 1/3 of my daily energy requirements with its 2 bits of cheese, 4 patties and double bacon on a sugar treated bun.

Ban it all because it kills us....microwaves are bad so ban them...mobiles use microwaves, ban them too.

Radio waves might be bad, ban them.

But truly, I was glad to hear that times are looking up...evolution not revolution.

Peace,

Mind

[Kenny Blister]

Hi creach, the following link will tell you to why they contacted her.

Ecstasy deaths linked to raised body temperature

[Fenris]

Its really difficuly to find information regarding specific numbers but I did find something somewhere that showed that 2 under 25's die each year from alcohol poisoning in the ACT. So a rough extrapolation for Australia you could estimate that each year 30+ young people die where the sole reason for death is alcohol poisoning.

I wonder how many deaths are caused by severe stupidity? Maybe reckless behaviour combined with low IQ should be legislated against.

[MindExpansion]

Hey Fenris, I do actually have a bunch of realted stats that I will soon be posting in the Legalizing Sally D thread, when I do I'll try and remember to let evryone know in this thread too.

Peace,

Mind

[jeane]

im living in NZ so this isnt supa dupa relevant, for a school journalismy thing i was writing an article on alcohol, the only statistic i could find on the internet for alcohol as leading cause for death (in NZ) was for the year 1997 and 142 deaths. turns out this was a bit of an outlier, as annually its more like 1000! took me ages to extract that info from govt agent, got lead on a wild goose chase etc...

kinda a worry

[occidentalis]

Hi creach, the following link will tell you to why they contacted her.

Ecstasy deaths linked to raised body temperature

Yeah I did find that

but surely there are other qualified people, more qualified than a phd student, who can comment on the issue.

Perhaps they did contact them also, but she was the one that gave them the indignant angle they wanted.

[MindExpansion]

They chose her for the same reason Sunrise picked someone who was quite obviously anti ecstacy. Because they love appealing to the public's idea that drugs are intrinsically bad, so factually ignorant people (because if you aren't factually ignorant you are likely to not be quite so anti-ecstacy) can sit at home and say *in an old woman's voice* Oooohhh that Koshie, he really is a good man, has just the right values and looks out for all of us every day aussie's!

I think it would be interesting to see any media publication that contacted someone who SUPPORTS the paper for additional comment. It's typical biased modern day media reporting on an issue with far too much misinformation and unfounded ideas within the general public to expect journalists to report in a non-biased fashion for fear of being regarded by the audience as 'pro-drug'.

Peace,

Mind