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unidentified oneirogenic plants

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I was skimming through this study on calea, http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16295, when I came across a reference to a couple of references to unidentified oneirogenic plants within the intoduction. The 2 I am interested in were,

a. " Nahuatl Indians from the Sierra de Puebla use an as yet unidentified species of Salvia, known by the name of Xiwit, for the same purpose (Tim Knab, pers. commun.)"

b. "The plant known as Bakana to the Tarahumara Indians, which has been reported to be an analgesic, antipsychotic and divinatory agent(Bye. 1979), was later found to be employed for dreaming during night sleep (William Merrill, pers. commun.)"

Does anyone have any information about the identity and use of these 2 plants?

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bakana first... http://entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=85&z=5 I find scirpus to look kinda Cyperus looking and tend to dig the same growth habits, IME... probably exceptions. oh wait its the same family. well there ya go.

Coryphantha compacta: This species is considered a kind of peyote. It is ingested by shamans as a potent medicine which is both respected and feared. "Bakana," "Bakanawa," "Hikuli," "Wichuri." 5/P, 10/P - from http://entheogen.netfirms.com/articles/art...otic_Cacti.html

So there ya go, its either a cactus or a waterside plant. what grows better at your place? :P

edity bit... found some ppl having a disagreement bout the Scripus thing, reckon its not found in that part of the world anyway, so maybe the cac is a better bet? or maybe they ate both explaining the "grouping" name given to both... I keep hearing vague things about Cyperus as a potentiator maybe it likes to dance with the Coryphantha? Pure guesswork, but i do know tribal types tend to like "categorical" naming patterns sometimes.

a quick hunt thru a Nuatl-English dictionary thingy found me the following... thinking the w in xiwit is the same as the hu in the middle of the first one and the 3rd one... kid of a mobile pre-whistle sound on the lips?think "wowa" in" chihuahua"? Not a linguist here but based on their own vocab lists, etc... (youll NEVER guess what my Mum studied at uni...)

www.freelang.net/dictionary/nahuatl.html - free dictionary (any SABsters wanting new shamanic sounding names for their cat, dog or new car, check it out, lovely stuff) from using this with your Xiwit in mind, I found...

xihuitl- comet; foliage; herb; leaf; grass; plant; turquois... also name of the yearly cycle, feminine word

xilotl - tender maize

xiuhtontli -little leaf; small herb (xiwit=ontli?)

xiuhyo- foliage; leafy

xiuhnelhuatl - herb root

now assuming that the top one is the closest link for now, the w thing taken care of (w doesnt seem to get used that i could find in the Nahutl vocab lists going around? B sounds arent common either, side note) theres the L on the end... check out this link...


for something of interest regarding t or tl variants of the language.

Anyways, doesnt sound very specific at all... sounds like you are trying to find a reliable Id on plant known as "a planty kind of green plant"... I'm sure if you cornered a nahuatl and said "xiwitl?" hed direct you to a herbalist or point pointedly at the nearest clump of weeds. Unless they use the term as collective in your quoted text source... ie "yes sometimes we use "xiwit" "xihuit" (other herbs) for purposes of divination and dreaming and sleeping... not all cultures draw a neat line between the process of dreaming and the process of sleeping as "we" tend to... the two are often seen as being inseparable to "simpler minds" haha. And it might be they use it as a more in the know term to mean "well plus the other wink wink things we use" or "whatever u do dont DONT tell that fucker the real name man, or your dad will kick you in the gourds... just tell him its a "plant".

Might be an ancient horticulturalists joke too... "hey you know about plants... whats this?" "um... its a plant?" :P

The "mystery salvia" thing that I find now n then, somewhere between a feral splendens and a gregii (gregsonii?) has a deeply relaxing effect, the visionary aspecti s more from the conscious being turned down rather than the subconscious elevated... it has bluey-green leaves, kinda hairy... ive only found it in two spots, both are very much in the guts of what usedt obe serious cattle important from SA areas. Or it might juts be some mutant domestic thing that doesnt key out properly to anything else when it should... either way its quite moving for a "mystery". It carries itself like a wild species but it responds very well to human interaction and nothing seems to eat it but me lol. Self seeds like a mofo too, never seen a sage like it. It pops up in the dead centre of an area riddled with what have turned out to be some very useful plants from the SA points of view... useless weeds in more sensible POVs of course!

I have seed if you want some to play with, its hardy stuff, pinky-purple flowers, bitter as hell and you can cut it back to the ground again and again... reasonably interesting smoke but quidded its quite a bit more useful I find.

probably no help at all, but it kept me amused.


other edity bit... eating plants to trip and eating plants to aid dreaming arent necess the same thing... salvias tend among other things like being calming and centreing and dissolving all in one, also suppress your ability to perspire.. so you stay warmer longer... no doubt of use to people that use physical trance means dancing etc or fever/delirium/heat treatment to induce psychic effects... makes your skin into your own lil lodge, if you get my drift. Also, your REM state and waking time and all kinds of things are increasingly being found to be connected to your core temperature fluctuations ie most ppl wake up about 4 hours tops after the coolest point... about 3 or 4 am for normal ppl, if you have Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome like muggins here (only reason i know of the link between temp n sleep cycles, lookin into that) then you dont cool right off til about 5 hours behind everyone else, so you wake up at midday instead... basically im thinkin along the lines that even tripping aside, anything that makes you stay warmer is going to make you sleep longer, in some ways,giving you more room to work and time to breath in your dreamstates? I know if i get a normal nights sleep ie bugger all, i get process dreams and thats it... but if i can revel in it more, i can get an awful lot done on the dreamside... it sounds as if the same mob was clued up enough to go eating tryptophan prone mushies to get a good nights sleep, im sure other things occured to em too. mumble mumble rant gibber... :P

Edited by Vertmorpheus

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