Diplopterys cab

[baphomet]

The seeds above weren't viable, damn!

[Teotzlcoatl]

There is an ebay vendor selling winged diplopterys seeds...

Just search "Diplopterys" on ebay if you want to find it.

[mutant]

Well, fellow corroboromember planthelper got me into wondering if my only seed-grown PV is not really a psychotria, but a Diplo instead.

Here's the thread with various pics of it.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry185393

I have to admit that inspite of not having the greatest experience in botany/cultivation, and admitting the botanical terms and details in this thread made me a bit dizzy [it's fucking 38 celcius hot here now!] , that the seeds a planted as PV were very much alike like those baphomet posted and said they were not viable. It was 20 of them, a couple pairs were binded like a rather oval sphere and one pair had some kind of thin eggshell remaining - well excuse my description, but english is not my own language.

Also, even if my plant is really young, the close-up of the bigt leaf mauve posted had me into instictively thinking that my plant looks like a diplo rather like a psychotria. I have been trying to upload some pics, but imageshack is fucked up...

What would the growing requirements of a diplo? are they similar to a PV? should I try to repot to a bigger pot? any other thoughts?

PS: So do PV and diplo seeds look alike?

Edited August 26, 2008 by mutant

[baphomet]

I have to admit that inspite of not having the greatest experience in botany/cultivation, and admitting the botanical terms and details in this thread made me a bit dizzy [it's fucking 38 celcius hot here now!] , that the seeds a planted as PV were very much alike like those baphomet posted and said they were not viable. It was 20 of them, a couple pairs were binded like a rather oval sphere and one pair had some kind of thin eggshell remaining

So do PV and diplo seeds look alike?

You know what? I thought planthelper might have been giving you false hope to be honest but now I am starting to reconsider. I was thinking that it was probably going to be some unidentifiable weed possibly from the amazon which may still be the case but the whole diplo thing is looking somewhat more plausible now. Obviously there is still some debate over what true diplo seeds look like but if the ones that I and some other members had were real then you are in with a good chance.

To answer your question, psychotria viridis seeds look nothing like the supposed "diplo" seeds that I had and your seeds sound pretty much identical, there are some African species of psychotria that I have seen that look similar but not viridis or carth or any species of psychotria that I know of from the amazon thats used in ayahuasca (although there is much I don't know). What may have happened and what you should be hoping for is that someone was sold those seeds as "chacruna" and assumed they were referring to psychotria viridis, but in fact they may have been referring to diplopterys cabrerana, I know its a long shot but apparently some natives do call it chacruna (or something that sounds very similar) not just 'chaliponga' so you may be lucky but don't pin all your hopes on that, just get some more viridis seeds from a reputable vendor to be sure (preferably Torsten) Last time I looked SAB had some viridis seeds for sale and you can be sure they will be the real thing!

If for some reason you don't have any luck there I don't see why someone else here couldn't send them to you? (although I am not very knowledgeable about Australian/Draconian law) I will most likely have some fresh ones soon and I speak fluent Greek if that's any help?

EDIT: "There is an ebay vendor selling winged diplopterys seeds...

Just search "Diplopterys" on ebay if you want to find it."

Her name is Samantha Britton & she is a scammer, her username is 'karmaphish' FFS.. think about it. Buyer be ware!!!

Edited August 26, 2008 by baphomet

[mutant]

What may have happened and what you should be hoping for is that someone was sold those seeds as "chacruna" and assumed they were referring to psychotria viridis, but in fact they may have been referring to diplopterys cabrerana, I know its a long shot but apparently some natives do call it chacruna

that's what I am guessing might have happened, if it is to be a diplo. and yeah, I might get some PV cut or seeds sometime....

you speak greek ? how come?

Edited August 26, 2008 by mutant

[baphomet]

you speak greek ? how come?

My Mother was born there and I grew up speaking both languages.

[mutant]

Cool. I sure could plant some fresh PV seeds if we could work out some trade... we will see

[Himdumb]

"the chaliponga plant has NEVER been known to go to seed, which is really strange, but we've never seen it happen... so i'm very skeptical about anyone saying they have the seeds..."

Mariella, Alan Shoemaker's wife

Link

Interesting...

[baphomet]

Quote, Mariella: "Here in the jungles of Peru and Ecuador, neither I nor anyone that I have met has ever seen it flower."

I have seen a personal email in which Alan Shoemaker tells a friend of mine that he recently "was lucky enough to see Diplopterys Cabrerana in flower". The email was sent long before that thread so something is not right here.

Edited October 27, 2008 by baphomet

[Torsten]

Diplo flowers frequently, but doesn't appear to set seeds readily. Maybe needs cross pollination?

[Teotzlcoatl]

I have seen a personal email in which Alan Shoemaker tells a friend of mine that he recently "was lucky enough to see Diplopterys Cabrerana in flower". The email was sent long before that thread so something is not right here.

Pretty sure he just said he's never seen it set SEED, didn't mention not seeing flowers.

Maybe they just have one clone in the area and it flowers but can't breed with itself so it never sets seed.

Maybe needs cross pollination?

Exactly!

Whoops, your right!

neither I nor anyone that I have met has ever seen it flower.

I thought something was a little weird too. Hmm...

I commented in the Spiritplants thread.

Edited November 1, 2008 by Teotz'

[Free Man]

Didn't you also offer to trade a Dip Cab there Teotz, as long as they grew the seed out for [if memory serves me ] Iboga[irrelevant] If you already have this plant why don't you spread the love???

I would love a Dip plant Teotz/

http://www.spiritplants.org/trade-winds-f16/topic2777.html

[Nobun]

Edited cos of gibberish ! ! ))

Ok back on topic'

Does the Diplopterys Cabrerena send out roots' that pop up as new shoots' the likes of Passion flower vines' because if so' like the Passion flower vine' it has no extreme need each year to flower and set seed'

I have a massive Passion flower vine in the back garden' it is supposed to give up each winter' so flower then grow orange passion fruits' setting seed for next year'

This plant has only flowered and give fruit once in 4 years' and it grows all the year around' in the ice and the snow' in it's semi protected place it is in'

It is so big that it has no need of fruiting' because it has enough main roots/trunk/folliage to keep it alive' never dormant'

As soon as the weather turns in Feburary' it sends out untold new shoots/foliage from the trunk above ground' and during the growing season' lots of small shoots sprout out of the ground around the main trunk area'

It flowered the first year (no fruit/seeds) very few flowers the second'(no fruit/seeds) a few flowers the 3rd and no fruit/seeds' This year(the fourth year) with lots flowers/fruits' it flowers every year so far' but some years only very few flowers' and then this year it went crazy an is laden with fruit' (Guess it believes it is going to be a hard winter)

I mention this becasue of what I have heard of the Diplo no setting seed'

I know it is a completely different family' but why would the Diplo be any different' if it has no need of re-propergating itself each new season' then it just keeps growing' slows down lots for the cold and winter season' flowers at the begining of the season and slowly through' It would only require to set seed if it became stressed enough to go through that cycle' kind of testing the weather as it goes'

I pray this makes sence folks'

This being the reason that Diplo has no been seen to set seed' even though it would appear that it can be propergated from seed'

OK I am off to study the bio-regions of Diplo'

Perhaps I shall find it growing in more temperate climes' meaning it would have a greater desire to set seed each season'

One way to find out would be to stress a plant through it's growing/flowering season' then make it think it is going to get a hard winter and lose most of it's above ground folliage' forcing it to produce and drop seed'

If I had a Diplo' I could do the experiment in my grow room and the fridge'

Wow now this has stuffed me' Diplo only flowers seldom' no wonder the seeds are hard to get'

Oh my ! !

For myself' "Chagropanga/ Diploteys Cabrerena (Chaliponga ?) is the most awesome add-mixture light plant of them all'

It takes a lot to work with this plant fully'

Unlike my experiences with Chacruna' of which have always been soft' and Jurema that has always been dreamy' and very introspective' unless I use the mhrb with red Cappi vine' then full blown Aya experience without the depth and expansion/clarity of visions that Chagropanga brings'

Extremely interesting thread folks' much appreciated for all of folk's input'

This stuff is of what I call a good days work'

Shame I have no clue of what you folks are talking about as to different names of plant parts and such like'

All I know is of how to grow seeds/plants'

I shall hunt down some so called Diplo seeds and let you all know of what evolves' unless someone has some they can send me'

The answers shall come' this is a certainty'

Have a great day folks'

Be well

Nobunoni +

Edited October 31, 2008 by Nobun

[Torsten]

Ok back on topic'

Phew, thanks for that cos I have no diea what all that gibberish in the first part of your message is.

Does the Diplopterys Cabrerena send out roots' that pop up as new shoots' the likes of Passion flower vines' because if so' like the Passion flower vine' it has no extreme need each year to flower and set seed'

Bad example I guess cos Passionflower is a prolific seeder.

It seems Diplo is a little more shrubby than caapi, so it may not be as vigorous in terms of root division or suckers. However, I am sure that if a low hanging stem was put under mulch it woud root. I know someone who has rooted diplo cuttigns successfully and I will ask him for more information.

It would only require to set seed if it became stressed enough to go through that cycle

I think this is very relevant. Maybe diplo does indeed require certain conditions that are not provided in the cultivated plants that are being tended to. Whether these conditions are stress factors, height, or microclimate is anyone's guess at the moment.

Wow now this has stuffed me' from accounts of Diplo in it's natural environment' no one has seen it flower'

In it's natural environment you would not get to see the flowers because they would be 30m up in the trees. This is just like 15 years ago the 'knowledgable people' said that caapi does not set seed - which we now all know is bullshit. Caapi also flowers and seeds high up in the trees, so no one had seen seeds until a few years ago after it flowered in cutivation. And so the cycle begins again.

[Nobun]

Yep' that is a good way to take cuttings' I bend a branch down cover it with soil and stick a stone ontop of the stem' depending on the plant' they root in 2-3 weeks'

I gave the passion flower example because of where she is growing' she is stressed and hardly flowered for four years' but has no real need to go through the flower fruit cycle' She has adapted to growing all the year round'

I guess she would be a prolific seeder if she was in her home environment'

This just made me think of the Diplo' never going through it's cycle' because it has no real need to'

I shall speak with a friend of mine in Iquitos' he may shed some more light on this plant'

Bliss

Nobunoni +

[mutant]

I know someone who has rooted diplo cuttigns successfully and I will ask him for more information.

Tell more about it. I might have one juvenille one.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...c=17261&hl=

I will be back. nice points

[woof woof woof]

very likely judging from the last pic!

if confirmed....mr muto..... i'd love to be on your list for a cutting!

[baphomet]

Pretty sure he just said he's never seen it set SEED, didn't mention not seeing flowers.. Whoops, your right! I thought something was a little weird too. Maybe it's not really Shoemaker? Hmm...

It's hard to tell who's posting most of the time because it seems Alan and his wife both share the same account.

He/she.. whoever it is, says this (and I quote)

"Here in the jungles of Peru and Ecuador, neither I nor anyone that I have met has ever seen it flower." .. "no one that I have spoken with in 16 years here has seen it in flower"

The problem is that in an email to a friend of mine on Tue, 30 Jan 2007 Alan shoemaker says this: (I have permission from my friend to post this here but his name and part of this email have been deleted for privacy reasons)

Hi ......

*Deleted

"Recently I even saw DCabrerana in flower!! amazing.

The Conference website is: www.soga-del-alma.org click on shamanism

conference.

About half the information is up now and I'm busy here working on the

final 50%.

Do come, there will be 300 or so people from all over the World here.

It is truly amazing!

all the good things,

alan shoemaker"

The only conclusion I can make here is that Alan Shoemaker full of shit and spreads misinformation. I know he is a member here so perhaps he could clear this up for us?

Oh and BTW here are some photo's from Icaro's DNA posted earlier in this thread showing what is claimed to be diplopterys cabrerana in flower, (edit) in Loreto - Iquitos PERU!!

http://icarosdna.yage.net/photos/gall04/index.html

Edited November 3, 2008 by baphomet

[Torsten]

"Here in the jungles of Peru and Ecuador, neither I nor anyone that I have met has ever seen it flower." .. "no one that I have spoken with in 16 years here has seen it in flower"

"Recently I even saw DCabrerana in flower!! amazing.

alan shoemaker"

That is certainly a contradiction that requires an explanation. Maybe Alan saw it flowering somewhere outside of Peru/Ecuador which would explain away the first part of the initial statement, but does not explain the "no one that I have spoken with in 16 years here has seen it in flower".

[baphomet]

He will most likely say that he saw it flower in some other country, probably columbia but I'm not buying it, there's not much he can say to make me think that he's not full of it.

[planthelper]

I gave the passion flower example because of where she is growing' she is stressed and hardly flowered for four years' but has no real need to go through the flower fruit cycle' She has adapted to growing all the year round'

I guess she would be a prolific seeder if she was in her home environment'

Nobunoni +

the passiflora caerulea vines are just simply very erratic, some years they have thousands of fruits, other years nothing.

the enviroment, i think can be ruled out as a factor, as for plants located even in the same street in england, some will have lot's of fruits right now, whilst others don't. but sure passifloras are hungry individuals and if they don't have good conditions they will not be happy and as such will not flower at all. the rule that "stressing" will induce flowering and fruitset does not apply to passifloras...

[shoemaker]

to clear this up... I have never written that I have seen chaliponga in flower, because I haven't. I've been growing it for 10 years and have huge plants. They love very damp earth but will also grow in full sun with only rain, but the vines get very brittle and it doesn't grow very quickly. From one cutting in the ground, it sends out shoots and these too begin growing quickly. the original mother plant of chali was brought to Iquitos by the curandera Adela. She got it from the Huambisa tribe near the border of Ecuador about 40 years ago, so most all the chaliponga (huambisa) growing in Loreto have come from this Mother plant. Adela has also never seen it in flower.

[baphomet]

So just to be a little clearer.. Are you saying that you never wrote that email? That I or my friend have forged or altered it??

"the original mother plant of chali was brought to Iquitos by the curandera Adela. She got it from the Huambisa tribe near the border of Ecuador about 40 years ago, so most all the chaliponga (huambisa) growing in Loreto have come from this Mother plant. Adela has also never seen it in flower."

Well here it is flowering in Iquitos - Loreto Peru in December 2002: http://icarosdna.yage.net/photos/gall04/index.html

Edited November 3, 2008 by baphomet

[Torsten]

I posted this pic in another thread I think, but can't find it now. It's from a friend in brazil.

[baphomet]

http://www.ayahuasca-info.com/uk/dmt_where/

Edited November 3, 2008 by baphomet