How to recognize a riomizquensis

[Teotzlcoatl]

I was wondering what features can reliably recognize a Trichocereus riomizquensis?

From my personal observations I believe the "San Pedro predominant cultivator" represents T. riomizquensis much better than it does T. pachanoi.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Thanks for posting!

I'm glad somebody bumped this thread!

Riomizquensis is one of my favorite Trichocereus cacti.

I personally believe we missed some names like these somewhere or we really could use some. There is certainly a whole lot of different looking stuff under pachanoi at the moment.

I agree, but I believe it's better to think of them as strains rather than species.

Your specimen looks like a Trichocereus scopulicola

[George]

-double-

Edited August 11, 2008 by George

[George]

No It's quite a common clone spread around the world. Popular grafting stock for some.

It has a rather thick waxy layer that makes it kinda tough. The shiny effect from the b&w pic gives me that same waxy feel but it might also be an optical illusion.

Some folk has this clone as a short spine peruvianus. But it looks more like something from Bolivia or Equador. Michael has a pretty picture of this clone.

Whatever it is. The peruvian patch, the pre dominant or whatever it is and the equadorian/bolivians are extremely varied in all aspects. I truely would like to know what else they have "merged" as there seem to be stuff missing here.

I am also not implying that the common riomi clone is wrong. I am merely pointing out how that old picture looks like something else.

I have a scop Teotz, the clamate here makes the scop grow avg 13cm wide where this fella is about 10cm avg.

I thought it was juuls but juuls ribs are more angular.

Edited August 11, 2008 by George

[Teotzlcoatl]

Any news on T. riomizquensis?

[trucha]

I've never seen any reference to this name being formally published but the ICSG's consensus initiative rag shows an photo of it labelled Echinopsis pachanoi ssp. riomizquiensis.

The photo above does look like a common sort of bona fide pachanoi. Hair color and appearance of fruit would be interesting to see.

So far as what I've seen in photos there really is no feature that splits riomizquiensis out of pachanoi.

Or is someone familiar with something I've missed.

There are some photos now posted under "loose ends" at the pachanot page the might be of interest in this discussion.

http://www.largelyaccurateinformationmedia...izquiensis.html

Horst was the source for all three. All were said to be from Ritter seeds with the same FR number so why two names?

The tip that I originally provided to Sacred Succulents came from NMCR and was sold as originally coming from Ritter seed obtained via Hildegard Winter. Maybe its right, maybe its not. Horst obviously believed it was correct but that is no sot of proof obviously.

It looks so much like a pachanot that without talking with Horst in person there seems little that can really be known. I am hoping to be able to do this in just a few weeks assuming he is still alive by then.

If SS's plant flowers this year we should know more as riomizquiensis is supposed to have dark brown hairs.

Edited February 7, 2009 by trucha

[trucha]

I'm puzzled a bit on this species.

Is there anything about its description that can actually place this outside of pachanoi?

[trucha]

The same photo from Ritter 1980 shot with a camera rather than a photocopy machine

[Teotzlcoatl]

Thanks for posting Mr.Trout.

My T. riomizquensis looks JUST LIKE the one in the link you posted called "T. scopulicola var. riomizquiensis" from NMCR.

[trucha]

Its baffling to me why Ritter separated this from pachanoi.

It seems much closer than peruvianus which he merged.

Beautiful plants.

I have to wonder why he did not try to describe it in the mid1950s when he said he found it. 1980 seems like a long time to wait?

[Teotzlcoatl]

Maybe some type of new information arose that caused him to split "riomizquensis" from pachanoi.

Is there anything about its description that can actually place this outside of pachanoi?

Rate of growth? Mine grows slow as crap... like less than an inch per year!

I'd like to see these plants in their natural habitat... perhaps is something like a terscheckii with pachanoi spines!

[trucha]

Its weird Ritter would find it in the 1950s, wait until 1980 to publish the description and not include anything capable of segregating it from pachanoi in his description.

If you want to take this farther compare not just his description of riomizquiensis to his description of pachanoi but also factor in his comments made in his comparisons of riomiquiensis versus scopulicola, in his comparison of scopulicola verus pachanoi and in his comparison of santaensis versus pachanoi. (In his descriptions from his 1980-1981 volumes of Kakteen in Sudamerika)

Evil genius and I are presently working to get all of this available and online in both English and German.

I'll post links when it is there.

A description for a proposed species can mean nothing unless it has unique discriminants. Ritter typically did rather nice descriptions so this is just puzzling to me.

My bona fide pachanoi grow very slow in comparison to the pachanot as well.

My guess is the summer and winter extremes here stress them. A lot of these pachanoid and peruvianoids that occur in nature with some shading or nurse plants while young showing the best growth when large.

Riomizquiensis might like bright but dappled light when younger? Peruvianus and fat pachanoids really responds well to this for the fattest growth.

There should be photos of riomizquiensis in habitat available by the end of this summer, goddess willing.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Very interesting!

Thanks for posting Mr.Trout!

[trucha]

Another bit of oddness is that this name was not published by Ritter until around 8 years after the seeds reached NMCR.

Two overdue photo sets were added to

http://www.largelyaccurateinformationmedia.com/pedro/riomizquensis.html

Edited August 12, 2011 by trucha

[Cereusly]

New guy here, first post. I got a cutting of a supposed riomizquensis about a month and a half ago. The person I got it from claimed it was grown from French CSS seed. I'll take a picture tomorrow when the sun is out and post it. I also just got some riomizquensis seeds from SS collected by Baker. Their description for the seed reads

"Upright stands 8+ feet tall. 2-5" diameter stems with blue-green to yellow-green epidermis. 4-7 radial spines with 1-3 central spines to 3" long. Looks to be a distinct spiny form of Trichocereus bridgesii. Planted around the town of Totora, Cochabamba Dept., Bolivia 9,000'. Growing with Buddleja and Carica quercifolia. Local women call it "achuma" and use it externally to treat fever. No one knows where it grew wild. We searched where Ritter first described the plant at Chullas, and along the Rio Mizque, adjacent valleys and slopes, but never found a single wild plant, only herds of feral goats."

That's a curious description. Guess the feral goats ate all the wild riomizquensis.

Edited August 14, 2011 by Cereusly

[M S Smith]

As far as I know I am the only one in the entheogen community to have grown the Freench C&S Society T. riomizquensis from seed. I've since spread it around slowly, but others might have a better ability to grow it quicker and trade more often. Here's a shot of it...

The mother might have been the regular T. riomizquensis, but from the looks of this particular plant the father clearly is something else.

I hate the idea that goats may have destroyed natural populations of T. riomizquensis, or T. scopulicola as KT once outlined for us. Time for me to do a nice thorough search of Totora, Bolivia, to see if I can find any photos of the plant.

~Michael~

[Cereusly]

Here's some pictures of the cutting I received. I'd post who I got it from but that seems kind of disrespectful. I looked at the rest of the riomizquensis pictures on your flickr Michael. Looks to be the same as your seed grown French CSS plants. Looks like I know where it came from now.

Edit: Just realized how large those pictures I attached were. Whooops.

Edited August 14, 2011 by Cereusly

[M S Smith]

Here's a couple better shots of my T. riomizquensis from NMCR...

~Michael~

Edited August 16, 2011 by M S Smith

[mutant]

^^^ hey now it resembles bridgesii a bit ....

I was starting to think why are these dudes making such a fuss for what looks like an average pachanoi...

well it does look like the average pachanoi and also resembles the pc pach and bridgesii a bit...

Edited August 19, 2011 by mutant

[M S Smith]

Certainly more similar in appearance to the PC and to T. bridgesii than to any proper T. pachanoi don't you think? Spine arrangement is certainly more like the PC than any other plant I've seen, as well as areole angularity, and overall plant color and level of glaucescence. I wonder if T. riomizquensis has the lighter flower hairs common to the PC and to T. bridgesii, this as opposed to the darker hair common to T. pachanoi and T. peruvianus. I'm betting the former.

Here's a standard PC for comparison. Please note that this plant has 6, maybe 7, ribs and may throw one off a bit.

Here's some more of that lovely plant.

~Michael~

Edited August 19, 2011 by M S Smith

[mutant]

yup. pc with the the colours of bridgesii. maybe

[amp]

I have a cutting of SS riomizquensis that sure looks alot like the standard PC pachanoi. In the past few weeks it dropped 2 ribs and went from 6 to 4.