Egyptian EthnoBeer

[Monk]

Isn't bog bean suppose to contain a great deal of coumarin?

Regarding this, for informations sake, I was thinking of tonka bean, but Menyanthes also contains some coumarin derivatives (scopoletin, scoparone) in addition to alkaloids and flavanoids (kaempherol, quercetin.) This leads me to believe that it may be psychoactive in and of itself.

Friendly, this is fascinating stuff! On one vendor website, it stated that this plant is revered as an aid in the development of humans on all levels including spiritual, emotional, sexual, psychological etc. I can see how a closer connection to one's dream world could affect each of those levels.

Dale Pendell told me once that Jesus was a member of the Egyptian Blue Lily cult, but I have been unable to get anything further from him on this.

1 Cor. 15:3-4 - that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures and that he was buried and that He rose again the the third day according to the Scriptures.

Dale is notorious for his humorous, but often very astute parallels. I doubt his assertion is based on anything more than this, but would love to learn otherwise

This talk of the dream world and afterlife visions makes me think that it is indeed time to add Mandragora to the alembic. By the way, friendly, do you recommend a specific translation of the Egyptian Book of the Dead?

[Monk]

Well, I didn't really feel like adding the Mandragora the other night, but I'm running low on this brew and there's work to be done here....

4 mL of my 1:8 tincture added to 16 oz. Nerfertem's Tripel and consumed while watching a movie. This process was repeated a short time later to bring the dose up to 8 mL tincture and 1 L of the ale. The effects of the mandrake were very similar to the last time. Cloudy vision, more sedation etc. I'm unimpressed by the combo. I think the Nymphaea is more euphoric and pleasurable on its own. It may be a dose relationship problem. Either the Egyptians were taking the lilly to give color and empathy to a full blown mandrake experience or they were using small amounts of mandrake to help counter the nausea of high dose lilly/poppy experiences per friendly's opinion. I think the former is less likely as the mandrake fruits are shown in the hieroglyphs and they contain much less concentrated tropanes than the root. I've never really liked tropanes anyway so YMMV, but it's unlikely that I'll pursue this avenue further. Now, just tossing a wild idea out there that popped into my head for down the road a bit...Double Chocolate Kratom Cream Stout...

[friendly]

I was thinking of the three days Jesus supposedly spent in the underworld as the reference for the Blue Lily theory. In mythology there are numerous examples of this three day journey to the underworld undertaken for various reasons by various protagonists. I am quite certain Dale was being serious when he mentioned the cult.

As for the color, etc, being added, on this I--having not tried Mandragora in this combination--cannot comment. However, it is known that in the Amazon tropanes are sometimes added to Ayahuasca to deepen the experience and make the visions more vivid. I have found them to be less than enlightening and not worth the confusion they can impart to the experience. But that's only me; others have found them to be valuable additions.

Mandragora was used by the Egyptians to dull the grief and sorrows following the death of a loved one, much the same way as they used Blue lily. It was not used to contact the spirits of the dead or for divination as was the Blue Lily.

While the scent of the Blue Lily flower produces an extremely satisfying calmness and feeling that all is right and natural in the death process, this cannot be said for Mandragora's effects; they are stupifying, not clarifying.

I would not use Mandragora for end-stage hospice, although I have used Blue Lily oil quite successfully for this.

All this makes me want to explore the Nymphaea rubra more fully, but I haven't had the spare time---three to four days off in a row--for quite a while now.

I have two translations of the Papyrus of Ani: The E. Wallis Budge version and another translated by Dr. Raymond Faulkner with aditional translation work and a commentary by Dr. Ogden Goelet jr. that has the original color illustrations of the Budge translation. They seem to be about equal in value as reference works.

Edited November 13, 2007 by friendly

[Monk]

I just got some new equipment for Christmas, so I'll be doing an all grain version of the Nefertem's Tripel with about 8 oz. Nymphaea caerulea very soon I found a cheaper, better source for extremely aromatic, colorful flowers and I can't wait to have 5 more gallons of this stuff around I'll post materials, process, and results if there's still some interest....

[apothecary]

Post away FM, this is a great ongoing thread.

[coin]

I am always very interested as well

(On Sunday night, I'll be posting some photos of the pond from which I'm harvesting white Nymphaea)

[Monk]

The all grain version of Nefertem's Tripel! Here's the scoop on this wonderful tipple:

10.5 lbs. Belgian Pilsner

2.5 lbs. Belgian Munich

1.o lbs. torrified wheat

1.o lbs. 'toffee' made from 50/50 light dried malt extract and dark brown sugar.

hops:

1 oz. east kent goldings 75 min.

1 oz. east kent goldings flameout

herbs:

1 gram grains of paradise

1/4 tsp green cardamom

1/4 tsp ground ginger

1 oz. crushed coriander

8 oz. top quality Nymphaea caerulaea was soaked in just enough vodka to make it mushy for several weeks prior. The mushy mass was placed in two sanitized hops bags and tossed into the primary.

A 700 mL starter of White Labs wlp510 Bastogne Ale Yeast was pitched.

It took me a while to get this posted and this one is now in secondary. I had some horrible efficiency on my mash (new to all grain) but it's still going to be around 9% ABV. It's got about 2.5 times the quantity of Nymphaea than the last one and of better quality! A taste will be pulled off in the next couple weeks to makes sure all is well.

[Lachy]

Wow, that's quite a recipe.

Please let us know how that one goes.

[Monk]

Heh, I really should've updated this a long time ago and someone PM'd me some questions about it, so I thought I'd do it now.

This ended up being fan-flippin-tastic! The extra Nymphaea definitely did not mess anything up in the flavor department. Nearly all tasters, including myself, said, "The first glass tastes weird cuz it's not hops bitter, but the second and third glass taste like great beer " It really, really grows on the drinker.

This is definitely my favorite beer for effect! I completely love it I don't know what else to say, really. I think the next round (which should be coming soon,) will include the Nelumbo plumules that the first batch did as they definitely added to the effect of the Nymphaea.

It's also interesting to consider the possibility of some Convolulaceae bits to this brew.....a certain tester had one of these at the tail end of a fungaloid experience and found it beautimous! The colors and the spacy euphoria....mmmm.... Also, the alkaloids of the lillies/lotus have vasodilating properties which could counter any vasoconstriction nicely ;)

Anywhoo.....

[Rizla]

This is/was a great thread, I want to try this recipe with a little less Nymphaea, say 6 oz.

And with a different focus...a hop-free porter focus. I think it might work. Although you did mention "cotton candy" earlier...hard to imagine what goes with that. Coriander?

Edited April 9, 2009 by Rizla

[Monk]

6 oz. would work fine, I think. Just make sure you get some really good Nymphaea. I highly recommend adding the Nelumbo plumules as they increase the potency significantly w/o increasing cost too much. maya-ethnobotanicals has them.

Yeah, coriander, ginger etc. go with the flowery smell pretty well, as does the fruity/floral yeast aromas from the belgian yeasts. An english yeast with some of those esters might be nice also.

One word of advice for hop-free ales; Make them strong. Hops being a preservative, one way to make hops-free ales keep longer is to make them around 10% alcohol by volume or more.

[Rizla]

Most of my beers are 8-9%, I like to drink them out of small glasses, limit it to one or two bottles a night anyway...Not so into alk effects anymore, but I love the taste!

So probably around 9% should be good...'cause I will want to age it, right? Have you kept any bottles around for a few months to monitor the flavor changes? (hard to do, I know it! Your friends can psychically tell you've got fresh beer, and start turning up out of nowhere!)

The bogbean I use is an excellent preservative in itself. Built to preserve beers for 2-3 months to a year.

I'll let you know the recipe I use, should do it next week...and whether it turns out glorious, or just rank!

A couple ideas/questions:

1) what about tossing some other flavoring herb in the _secondary_ fermenter, like ginger, to help with the taste?

2) is 8 oz/5 gallons enough to get the effects on one-2 glasses? If not, maybe I'll do a 3 gallon batch -- it'd be nice to have something in wine glass doses, say 2-3 wine glasses rather than pints!

3) How long did you keep the second recipe (above) in the primary, more than 2-3 weeks?

4) When you say, "toss (the lotus) into the primary", you mean adding them to the bucket, and pouring your ale and yeast on top of them, rather than adding the lotus _after_ fermentation starts. I assume this method didn't hinder the start of fermentation? (edit -- you used a starter, OK...what if I don't? Usually I pitch on a cake but don't have one around right now...)

Thanks for helping out a lotusbier newbie FM! -- Rizla

Edited April 9, 2009 by Rizla

[Monk]

1.) Sounds reasonable. The taste of good Nymphaea in beer will grow on you, though, so I wouldn't worry about masking it or blending it. It's not like making psom beer or something ;)

2.) 2 glasses? At the 8 dried oz./5 gallon rate, one pint was sufficient for mild effects, but 1 liter was my benchmark for a good strong Nymphaea effect.

3.) Primary was about 3 weeks. Secondary was about a month, maybe a little more. Bottle conditioning was 4 weeks. Tried to drink it as slowly as possible, so it lasted like 3 months after that. It aged splendidly.

4.) Yup. Put it in the hop bags (very important!) and placed in the bucket. Racked/aerated the wort on top of it. It didn't inhibit the fermentation at all. I calculated the amount of vodka added to make the whole 5 gallons 1 or 2 percent alcohol from the beginning. That amount won't hurt yeast at all. In fact, yeast actually eat alcohol when they're in the aerobic phase. I know it's weird, but true.

Sounds to me like you're very much on the right track