Beta-carbolines and LSD

[Coschi]

How 'dangerous' would you think it would be to take 2-3 grams of syrian rue seeds along with 1200 micrograms of LSD (yes 1 2 0 0)

??

[Ace]

I have little knowledge on the whole acid scene, and wouldnt have the slightest clue if syrian rue would potentiate the effects (though I would imagine it highly likely), but I was under the impression 200ug (two hundred micrograms) was a reasonably strong trip, let alone increasing that six-fold to a 1200ug (twelve hundred microgram) dose... I'd be very careful even contemplating the straight acid, let alone trying to increase it again...

Has anyone got some solid info that might pursuade someone for/against this sort of venture? It sounds very dangerous to me, but like I said, I know very little about either substance...

[Conan Troutman]

1200 mics isnt enuff??

with full MAOI think you should expect 2-3 times potentiation (have some STRONG benzos on hand)

be safer to smoke an xtract while already tripping, less duration, easier to gauge the effects without worrying bout goin for 2 daze.

*EDIT* Only where legal of course!

Edited August 21, 2007 by Conan Troutman

[foolsbreath]

people have taken extremely high doses of acid, I don't think that that level of acid is out of bounds with an maoi, I would only worry about some sort of contradiction that might occur at higher doses

If one were to attempt such a feat, It may be better to do 600 mics slightly mao inhibited then if all goes well take the other 600mics fully inhibited and maybe that will give a better idea of what 1200mics would be like with 2-3 gms of rue which would be sort of in the middle range of mao inhibition

[Coschi]

ahh clever words conan

here's a little reading, my interest is in bold

We have also experimented with potentiation of LSD by beta-carboline containing plants. Generically, the effects follow the same patterns. Subjectively, the dose feels three to four times more potent than it actually is. The closed eye imagery is greatly enhanced with circular highly visible bright imagery visible on only 25 [sic] micrograms. On higher doses (150-200 micrograms) there was a feeling of an ancestral presence (we have never felt an outside presence on LSD alone in over several hundred acid trips but we have found it quite common when LSD is combined with another psychedelic).

The closed-eye patterns were "almost visions". That is to say they were clearer than hypnagogic imagery but not as overwhelming or clear as DMT visions. The visuals were more like clear dream imagery. The mood elevation was quite astounding. At one point one of us shouted "You couldn't possibly have a bad trip on this stuff." There were no mood swings and the buoyant elation slowly receded to baseline over the course of the trip.

[Conan Troutman]

dont forgot that rue is psychoactive by itself, which would also account for increased effects not simply due to potentiation...

tread lightly...

[Ace]

As dangerous as it sounds, it still sounds quite interesting - Coschi, do you have a source for that info? I wouldnt mind having a gander out of interest

But like Foolsbreath mentioned, tread very lightly, just in case....

[Coschi]

sure http://deoxy.org/gz_betac.htm

[Conan Troutman]

good ol Gracie and Karkov

D.M Turner also had bit to say on the subject...this is from his 'Essential Psychedelic Guide'

HARMALA ALKALOIDS - Harmala will add a unique dimension to an acid experience. I find that it infuses the trip with a mystical and ancient quality. While on acid I normally feel like I'm interfacing with my own mind, but with Harmala it feels like I'm in contact with the invisible world of Spirits. An even greater degree of synergism exists between Harmala and the tryptamine psychedelics, psilocybin and DMT.

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online...guide/lsd.shtml

[nabraxas]

i can't find any evidence to back it up, but i've been led to believe that around 500ug there seems to be a cut off, ie: you wont get any increase or difference in effect taking 2000ug as you would taking 500ug.

As far as safety goes:

"For those concerned about immediate medical hazards in ingesting LSD...Abram Hoffer has estimated, on the basis of animal studies, that the half-lethal human dose--meaning half would die--would be about 14,000 [ug]. But one person who took 40,000 ug survived. In the only case of death reportedly caused by overdose (Journal of the Kentucky Medical Association), the quantity of LSD in the blood indicated that 320,000 ug had been injected intravenously."

Psychedelics Encyclopedia, Peter Stafford, p.70.

[gerbil]

My curiosity lies in how do you know you are dosing 1200ug?

I just can't fathom how anyone could claim a specific ug doses on illicitly manufactured substances, especially with something like LSD.

[Coschi]

well, for example lets say the lsd is not illicitly manufactured

and is supplied on guaranteed 300ug blotters

[Auntyjack]

At a guess I would say if it got to much you would just faint, just not sure on the role the rue would play if you were passed out tho.

either way t'would be one hell ova ride!!

AJ

[foolsbreath]

i can't find any evidence to back it up, but i've been led to believe that around 500ug there seems to be a cut off, ie: you wont get any increase or difference in effect taking 2000ug as you would taking 500ug.

As far as safety goes:

I have read (but can not find the report) that this is indeed true for the seratonin related pathways, but LSD also has a significant effect on dopamine, NA, and catecholamine pathways. These effects are seen at much higher doses I think1500mcg + and lead to a marked change in effect. I think the rue will also play a significant role due to this change in action at these levels

An interesting read on the various actions Here

[transDiMenTional]

well, for example lets say the lsd is not illicitly manufactured

and is supplied on guaranteed 300ug blotters

well in that case can u pls pm me

[foolsbreath]

LOL yeah me too! pharmaceutical grade wangers

[Monk]

[i can't find any evidence to back it up, but i've been led to believe that around 500ug there seems to be a cut off, ie: you wont get any increase or difference in effect taking 2000ug as you would taking 500ug

I, um, heard...in my younger years that this is somewhat true. By this, I mean that between the 5 and 10 hit dose (500-1000 mcg?) the difference is difficult to perceive. Around 15-20 hits, though, the difference is very distinguishable from the 500 mcg dose. Something about the horizon catching on fire and being torn across the landscape by a freight train, asphalt being like warm caramel to walk in, and friends looking like snakes and leopards but still themselves . Still, though, the difference btw 200 and 500 is more significant that 700 and 1500. Some kind of diminishing returns... As for harmala alks and L....I can't imagine there not being an interaction and I feel one should start small and work their way up based on their personal tolerance...

Edited August 23, 2007 by FeloniousMonk

[Conan Troutman]

wat foolsbreath said...crossover effects from DA, NE will become more prominent at higher dose, never hurts to do some reading :-P, thumbprint acid be a good start.

if only alice was legal... dagnabbit