Moclobemide (Arima,Aurorix)

[Guest UV1]

Has anyone heard of positive or negative experiences with a large single dose(maybe 2grams) of moclobemide a couple of hours before ingestion or inhalation of an interesting tryptamine.

An unknown associate of a friend of mine accidently consumed an amount of psilocin & psilocybin 90 minutes after swallowing 300mg of moclobemide. Nothing exceptional was noted.

I've read peak type-A monoamine oxidase inhibition takes a week to occur on a 300mg daily dosage.

So what about taking a large 1 off hit?

[Torsten]

Taking a large hit of Moclobemide may be dangerous. I have however ingested 450mg of it about 2 hours before taking 6mg of melatonin with some very interesting results.

A friend of mine (in europe) with very low MAO levels has also had good results by combining 600mg moclobemide with chacruna extract. When he tried to repeat the experiemnt a couple of days later it failed. The conclusion was that his MAO levels must have been elevated from the first experience, and the moclobemide was not able to put enough of a dent into the enzyme levels. I must stress, that this guy had VERY low MAO levels to start off with. I think the dosages of moclobemide required for effective MAO inhibition in normal people may be dangerously large.

[Guest UV1]

Coincidently a friend has recently tried 450mg Mocs -->90mins + 6mg Melatonin. Unfortunatly this turned the usually very mild sedative(for him) into something resembling rohypnol. Needless to say he didn't stay awake long enough to make observations.

Only thing of interest was a series of lucid dreams(full awareness that you are dreaming and thus can control the content of the dream) that were the longest lasting and most vivid he has experienced.

What were your observations?

[earthalchemist]

in case you haven't seen this uv1 ... interesting dream potentiation trials with melatonin and b6

http://www.erowid.org/smarts/melatonin/mel...tonin_exp.shtml

happiness

earthalchemist

[Guest Ramon]

"I've read peak type-A monoamine oxidase inhibition takes a week to occur on a 300mg daily dosage."

I think that maybe what takes a week to occur is for the neurotransmiters serotonin and dopamine to build up to effective levels.

The MIMS annual 1997 that there has been no reported fatalities on Moclobemide by itself. The highest recorded overdose being 20.55 g

But I assume that Moclobemide would not be being used by itself

[Torsten]

The melatonin/moclobemide combo was my easy entry into lucid dreaming. I've been trying to accomplish this for years without success and then one day I tried the combo and had no other option.

Another trial I did a few years ago with some friends in germany was to take melatonin with harmaline. This was even more interesting. The visuals were of a very unique nature. I could see two transparent 'screens' on which my visual experiences unfolded. These screen were superimposed on each other. One of thm was the reality, which I would see with my eyes open and it woul proceed at normal speed. the other screen was a dream, whcih was happening at 'ayahuasca speed' (=dream speed??). I could partly control which screen I would focus on, but sometimes it would just yank me from one to the other. Moving around was impossible and sleep was impossible too. It lasted for 2 hours and then faded into sleep. It was very gentle and relaxing and I woke up a few hours later extremely happy and relaxed. We all had a similar experiencewith this. the theme of the dual perception coming through in different interpretations.

[rkundalini]

Sorry to jump in so late on this but I found it really interesting, esp the erowid link (thanks ea)! Has anyone tried, or heard of people trying, B6 on its own in large doses? The page showed two strong experience with 1g doses, and someone else mentioning it 50 mg was a "normal" dose!

Where did the idea to combine moclobemide with melatonin come from? The harmala+melatonin also sounds interesting. Would you care you share estimates of the dosages concerned?

Regarding moclobemide tryptamine potentiation, trout mentions it somewhere or other as effective, and cleaner and more food-friendly than harmala alkaloids. Digging around on the net,

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php3?ID=1876 http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ayahuasca/...sca_exp12.shtml http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/trip.report/harmala.shtml (under "moclobemide")

Note if you're searching for info about this, you should also search for a common mis-spelling, "moclebemide" (as I just discovered, especially at erowid) as well as the correct "moclobemide".

[Torsten]

Where did the idea to combine moclobemide with melatonin come from?

it came from the experience with harmala and melatonin. When I came back to OZ is thought about how this combo could be consumed legally and tried it with the moclobemide instead of the harmala.

The harmala+melatonin also sounds interesting. Would you care you share estimates of the dosages concerned?

I have low MAO levels, so it doesn't take much to knock them out. 2 g of harmala is more than enough for me, which is fortunate, as this is not an active dose for harmaline effects for me (ie, I get full MAO inhibition without the harmala effects I dislike so much).

6 mg of melatonin about 40 minutes after the peganum. Effects start within 10 - 15 minutes. I also have very well maintained serotonin levels, so small doses of melatonin have a pronounced effect on me (my sleep dose is 1.5mg). The brand of melatonin is also very important, as the australian preparations have less than 50% of the effect as the same dosage of my fave overseas product (QHI).

[earthalchemist]

a few quick q's:

how would you establish one's individual MAO levels?

and on the subject of seratonin ... anyone know if 5-HTP is available in aust? i've checked supplement listings from Bullivants and no see.

happiness

earthalchemist

[Torsten]

how would you establish one's individual MAO levels?

Are you a person who needs 1 'e' to crawl on the floor, or does it take 5? Does one 'e' take 3 hours to clear your system, or 8?

It's not some thing you really test for (although it is possible), but you can get a fairly good idea of what you levels are innrelation to the people around you (ie the average).

I once met a guy in Amsterdam who smoked 150 mg of DMT and got a tingling in his fingertips as the maximu effect. His MAO levels were huge. It also took him 8 'e' to get trashed! This was by far the highest level I have ever seen and discussed with others.

and on the subject of seratonin ... anyone know if 5-HTP is available in aust? i've checked supplement listings from Bullivants

Don't think it's available here. Just order it from O/S, as it will easily clear customs. I am trying to grow some Griffonia simplicifolia at the moment, so maybe we have a supply of natural 5-HTP in the near future.

I am also expecting a few kilos of griffonia beans (food grade, but not viable), which could make an interesting meal

[tryptaminer]

In response to melatonin experiences, I used to have a 10g bag of melatonin, but i was reading the posted erowid experience, is it possible to buy Valeriana Officinalis and Pyridoxine HCI, at a health food store just like how you can buy melatonin?

[Guest ziebonka]

I am just wondering how to make myself certainly sure that I have low MAO levels, I don't take e's so how else do I know? If I do, how do I go about raising them?

thanx

ziebonka.

[This message has been edited by ziebonka (edited 04 September 2001).]

[alkatrope]

Just wondering, if a person on prolonged moclobemide treatment were to ingest DMT orally, would there be any effect?

Does it make a difference being on it for long time compared to this talk of just having a single dose pre-DMT?

Somone I know is about to start treatment with it and I'm just curious, and also if anyone knows of a good thread with reports of its antidepressant effectiveness that'd be great, so far I've only been able to find ones regarding DMT.

[strangebrew]

I was offered it once by a doc who had a whole box full under his desk! ;)

Hated the stuff. If only I knew then what I knew now. lol

[alkatrope]

And what's that?

[Torsten]

I know someone who smoked dmt in a group and things got a bit out of hand. The person facilitating the group had asked if anyone is on medications, in particular MAO inhibitors, but no one responded. One guy smoked 100mg and after a few minutes when everyone was asking him how he was [assuming he had finished] he was still losing it. Turns out he was on aurorix, but did not want the group to know that he was on antidepressants. He also did not know what a MAO inhibitor was which is why he did not respond.

The effects lasted about 20 minutes which indicates to me that he was probably on a low dose of moclobemide, or at least not fully inhibited.

DMT is actually a cool way to find out just what level of MAO inhibition your moclobemide dose is providing and hence could be used to tweak your moclobemide dose to maximum inhibition but without taking an excess. ie, no point taking 600mg/day if your MAO is knocked out for 5 hours from a 150mg dose.

DMT is also a great way to test how quickly your MAO levels recover. I've seen some (just) fully inhibited people drop to baseline after 3 hours and others after 6 hours.

[alkatrope]

^ Yeah cool, thanks.

So I suppose the answer to my question is that daily use of moclo will render DMT orally active whenever taken if the daily dose is sufficient to cause full MAO inhibition?

Think I'll make a new thread regarding actual therapeutic effectiveness..

Btw from my reading isn't moclo only supposed to cause 80% inhibition..?

ps - I consider 100mg smoked a pretty legendary dose regardless of MAOIs!

Edited June 5, 2008 by alkatrope

[Torsten]

Btw from my reading isn't moclo only supposed to cause 80% inhibition..?

ps - I consider 100mg smoked a pretty legendary dose regardless of MAOIs!

I've read about the 80% too, but it doesn't make much sense to me. At 80% you would metabolise the DMT fairly rapidly. Also, what dose is supposed to give 80%, and is 80% the maximum that can be achieved regardsless of dosage? Wouldn't make much sense.

As for 100mg, I think you will find that most facilitators will start at 100mg and then work their way down. 100mg guarantees that the subject has to let go. But more importantly, working your way up to large doses takes away a lot of the magic and amazement. ie, if you've experienced 30mg or 50mg then you already get a handle on parts of the 100mg experience. It's kinda like taking your first 'e', you can never go back and do it again.

[alkatrope]

Indeed the 80% thing is a tad ambiguous.. Not sure what's going on there.

Quite surprised to hear 100mg as a starting point.. Most people I know along with almost all read experiences say that 50mg is often enough to be completely obliterated into another dimension. Doubling that would be insane, unless it's one of those cases where at a certain dose you achieve "saturation" and any additional material just prolongs the experience..

[Torsten]

the problem is that 50mg is an average for obliteration. That means a large number of people won't be obliterated. At 100mg you will find maybe 1 in 50 who won't let go. The other problem is purity. Many acacia extracts aren't all that pure as they also contain NMT, T, and other alkaloids.

As for excessive dosage, I feel that once you let go it really doesn't matter how far you go [with smoked dmt]. I think that upper end dosage limits are much more improtant for ayahuasca analogs and changa, but not for the pure smoked version.

[alkatrope]

Fair enough.