The truth about Bowling for Columbine

[chilli]

komodo you snipped my quote to make it seem like I was saying something which is different to what I actually said...

I gave a specific circumstance and parameters under which my words were to be read, you can't take what I said out of context

Komodo has mad skill in this area. Its can be frustrating, but it gives him a reason to complain in the absence of real argument.

[komodo]

There is also the other side of this discussion, who believes that "it's all relative man" and lying is 100% ok, as long as you are furthering the goals for their side (the 'left') rather than those with whom they disagree (the 'right').

most people live on lies anyway, because they dont have the guts to face the truth, so given its all lies anyway, personally i'd rather mass folk were fed on lies with healthy social and environmental outcomes.

How does my sentence not precisely describe yours? I mean there it is in writing, you said as long as the lies are leftist, then you're fine with it.

the lack of precision is the excess spin in your terms "100% ok" and "fine with it". actually i think public lies are not 100% fine, but on their own, with no deep betrayal involved, they are insufficient to make me write off a proactive prosocial green commentator. you paint a black and white picture of for lying/against lying, as if this single, easy criticism overrides all other concerns. mediation is always slanted, and while the degree of slant i'll accept in anticorporate activism is apparently steeper than yours, that is not saying the same thing as "lying is 100% ok" as long as its on my side.

Edited June 20, 2007 by komodo

[No_One]

Now that this thread is coming to an end I'm going to release one last bit of passive aggression. I apologise.

IllegalBrain,

I want to thank you for your participation in this argument, you're stupidity has reminded me as to why ignorance is not bliss.

You obviously can't think for yourself and have found that snapping at the heals of thinkers is a good way to get them to throw some scraps your way. What are ya gonna do with these scraps? Regurgitate them back on these boards?

[Rhetorical Question - THAT MEANS DON"T REPLY]

I personally find your tact to be the wrong way to go about things but hey, whatever makes you happy. Why don't ya start a new thread if you don't get certain aspects of what someone is saying, perhaps even ask nicely for an explanation?

The reason you think my arguments are flacid is due to the fact I couldn't be fucked explaining the back-log of shit i.e. fundamentals you'd need to know to reach the same conclusion's I have, I'm not gonna waste anymore time than I already do writing shit on this forum.

Ever played a game where you're playing ya guts out but ya know the other guy isn't even trying but still kicking ya arse?

Annoying isn't it!

[Rhetorical Question - THAT MEANS DON"T REPLY]

That pretty much somes up your debating/philosiphising/wisdom worth i.e. you're not even in the game, pretenders eventually get found out.

I find your posts repulsive and you give me no incentive to want to reply, the reason you get a reply out of me at all is to show those viewers playing along at home that you're not worth listening to just as I'm not worth listening to either.

This will be my last interaction with you, I'm sure you'll have some snide reply to this post so keep in mind when you write it that it'll be falling on deaf ears at this end - but that's not gonna stop YOU now will it.

Peace

[chilli]

Hi champ,

Now that this thread is coming to an end I'm going to release one last bit of passive aggression. I apologise.

You apologize before writing your insults... Is that kind of like tacking "peace" afterwards?

I want to thank you for your participation in this argument, you're stupidity has reminded me as to why ignorance is not bliss.

You obviously can't think for yourself and have found that snapping at the heals of thinkers is a good way to get them to throw some scraps your way. What are ya gonna do with these scraps? Regurgitate them back on these boards?

Like I said, "simply saying that I don't get it doesn't really constitute an answer, it just makes it sound like you don't have one."

I personally find your tact to be the wrong way to go about things but hey, whatever makes you happy.

I think you mean 'tack' but in any case, what's wrong with it? Because I expose inconsistencies in your neophytic arguments? You should thank me, it will stop you from embarrassing yourself even further... at least I don't respond to genuine questions with taunting and empty aggression.

Why don't ya start a new thread if you don't get certain aspects of what someone is saying, perhaps even ask nicely for an explanation?

Haha, fuck off mate who do you think you are? I'll ask you what I want where I want, and as far as asking nicely goes, why don't you have a scroll back through this thread and have a look at where the insults started?

my arguments are flacid

Yep, you said it (Moore has taught me well).

I'm not gonna waste anymore time than I already do writing shit on this forum.

You keep promising this.

Ever played a game where you're playing ya guts out but ya know the other guy isn't even trying but still kicking ya arse?

Annoying isn't it!

No I haven't heard of this game, it doesn't sound very fun... you sound quite familiar with it though.

That pretty much somes up your debating/philosiphising/wisdom worth i.e. you're not even in the game, pretenders eventually get found out.

I find your posts repulsive and you give me no incentive to want to reply, the reason you get a reply out of me at all is to show those viewers playing along at home that you're not worth listening to

Your grandstanding for all these 'viewers' you imagine are watching you is transparent and silly... you can't even spell or construct a coherent sentence, let alone articulate simple ideas... go home and lick your wounds mate, perhaps komodo will comfort you now that you've joined the "I'm not talking to IllegalBrain, he's mean" club.

I'm not worth listening to either.

I didn't even need to take that one out of context.

This will be my last interaction with you

Again, this is something I have heard a lot from you.

I'm sure you'll have some snide reply to this post

Yes I do, see above.

keep in mind when you write it that it'll be falling on deaf ears at this end - but that's not gonna stop YOU now will it.

Actually, whether or not you respond I'm writing this with complete certainty that you will read it, so no I guess it didn't stop me.

[No_One]

you've joined the "I'm not talking to IllegalBrain, he's mean" club.

Is there one of them aswell?

I signed up to the "I'm not talking to IllegalBrain cause he has too much to learn" club, can you join more than one club?

Peace

[chilli]

Shhh... you're not supposed to be talking to me.

Hey anyway, you're pretty fickle dude... I'm a little perplexed by this public show of hostility when you wrote me a PM yesterday telling me I seemed like a nice guy and to look you up on MSN to chat... I'm kind of disappointed that you're so two-faced mate, but I'm also sorry if I reacted with my own nasty (but funny) remarks, I just don't like letting people bully me or push me around in any way. You push certain buttons and you'll see my dark side. And I'm virtually bristling with buttons. But my dark side is actually kind of cuddly when you get to know it.

One day do you think maybe you, me komodo and apoth can all sit around in a spa or play football or something? Or kill each other?

[apothecary]

the lack of precision is the excess spin in your terms "100% ok" and "fine with it". actually i think public lies are not 100% fine, but on their own, with no deep betrayal involved, they are insufficient to make me write off a proactive prosocial green commentator.

Hmm, lies usually constitute a betrayal of at least one person. In this case (keeping it on topic) the betrayed is Charlton Heston, who was stomped by Mr Moore to make his "point".

Hint, if you have to edit someones words into oblivion to fit your point, then it isn't much of one.

Maybe the portrayal of someone as a callous sociopath is insufficient for you to write off Mr Moore, but that's your perogative, and a bit silly considering the demonisation that this community commonly suffers as 'junkies' by misrepresentation of the facts, which is obviously sufficient for you to write off the demonisers.

you paint a black and white picture of for lying/against lying, as if this single, easy criticism overrides all other concerns.

Rather I would say that I demand a modicum of truth as a foundation of acceptance for me to believe someone is a champion of said truth. As I have pointed out numerous times, this is my beef. Mr Moore represents himself as such, despite the obvious evidence that he is not.

I would say as true as possible representation of the facts IS a criticism that overrides all other concerns for a documentary maker.

mediation is always slanted, and while the degree of slant i'll accept in anticorporate activism is apparently steeper than yours, that is not saying the same thing as "lying is 100% ok" as long as its on my side.

You call it anticorporate activism, Karl Rove calls it "the truth", but no matter what shiny name you like to put on it, it still stinks like the shit that is a lie.

[No_One]

I'm a little perplexed by this public show of hostility when you wrote me a PM yesterday telling me I seemed like a nice guy and to look you up on MSN to chat...

Kids and Toys.....you know which one you are.

I'm kind of disappointed that you're so two-faced mate

I'm more than two-faced, if you believe what campbell wrote I have a thousand faces.

but I'm also sorry if I reacted with my own nasty (but funny) remarks

I didn't perceive them as nasty nor funny.

You push certain buttons and you'll see my dark side

Was that it? Pfft....

One day do you think maybe you, me komodo and apoth can all sit around in a spa or play football or something? Or kill each other?

When you wish upon a star

Makes no difference who you are

Anything your heart desires

Will come to you

[chilli]

Chess then? Croquet? How about a hearty game of Twister?

Kickboxing?

[Vertmorpheus]

So when's SAB paintball going to start? Or we can play "lets hunt people who talk more than they walk for sport", or we could stand around taking turns to kick each other in the balls and whoever is left standing last, has the right to tell everyone else what to think, write, and feel, and who can get clearance to yell abuse at someone while they stand there with one of those groovy dutch gag balls in their mouth.Plenty of nice parks around my place, we can meet up with some sticks someday and beat each other, than play "battleship" to show our superior wit.

lets face it, if any of us prone to these hostile little male bonding sessions had half as much real sense or evolved wisdom, as some seem to lay claim to, we wouldnt be wasting our time in here. We piss n moan because we have bigger brains than our day to day lives can make full use of, and its nice to excercise the old anger muscles in an environment whereyou wont end up in hospital (not yet, stay tuned)... where we go wrong is thinkin that any of us know anything about the others in any definite sense. We're all fairly bright in our little ways, but is it doing us any good if we just have to hang out and bitch at each other? So some of us don't like others... fair enough. Are we meant to? Does growing the same houseplants make you the same person? seems not.

Personally I tend to naturally "side" with those that tend to keep the snide geeky shit to a minimum, I'm not sure how you can tell who can actually tell one end of a box of commonsense from the other but you just can.maybe the internet was borne out of the real rejects needing somewhere to spout all the thingsthey wish theyd have said to the larger classmates that used to stuff them in the toilet, hard to say for sure. I can handle revelling in human gripes, but the "enlightened being" routine leaves me cold. Especially when it gets just as quickly to the name calling and cock mocking as the more plebian approach, it just used bigger words and more of the oxford shirtlifter parlance. I know which approach will alienate you from the real world more quickly too... most of us can handle a happy idiot, who needs another miserable smartarse? Especially one that you know just simply doesnt get reality beyond what theyve read about it, googled about it, ordered in a box from a website. Knowing how to assemble and present a neatly worded three part arguement doesnt help if you are forgetting the basic fact that not everyone is going to, or has to, agree with you or like you, or even give a basic shit about you. This is not home, we are not your parents.Understanding and agreement are not necessarily cohabitants, you can walk a mile in someones shoes and still just want to kick him with the bloody things. But most of us I think can handle all the earbashing in the world, its when people start with the patronising bullshit that interest drops off pretty quick. Moreso when you can justk ind of tell that they still live with their parents, or spend their days getting blasted and watching dr phil (not that theres anything wrong with that of course, but it does tend to show up in your style haha).

I sincerely believe just about everyone around here is fairly bright, and mostly right if you look at things from where theyre standing. But you can tell in a flash who has easily pressed buttons, and who is just prone to pushing buttons because its theyre way of interacting with people, might be overly critical parenting or something

we're all the smartest fuckers on the planet, and bastards sometimes too.

love yez all, give or take the complete wankers. Remember, its just the internet, and it tends to attract crazies. mental health is contagious ;)

your supreme being and lover

VM

peace out happy face laughing face drugs mushroom face something about gandhi..... all that up there was just a momentary indulgence and we will return you to your regular, reasonable, balanced, objective and accepting poiint of view as soon as possible.

[dqd]

love yez all, give or take the complete wankers. Remember, its just the internet, and it tends to attract crazies. mental health is contagious ;)

Hope that was a joke.

peace out happy face laughing face drugs mushroom face something about gandhi..... all that up there was just a momentary indulgence and we will return you to your regular, reasonable, balanced, objective and accepting poiint of view as soon as possible.

The sooner the better

[Vertmorpheus]

yeah that bit of it, the rest is just my nearing-weeks-end brain trying to work out why what is in essence a bunch of fairly cluey, educated, experienced (ok mostly) individuals end up trying to hurt each others feelings and play whos da man, I'm as guilty of it as the next person but I notice there are some that go off, and some that push, and we all know who is what species. negative contribution vs idle detraction or something. eh, this is just being drivelled, I don't sit around for days working out just how to phrase things for maximum clarity or saintly objectivity.

at any rate, I think it's ok to be a bastard sometimes, especially as we don't seem to be able to help it, and we usually only do it out of a sense of being wronged somehow anyway,and mainly when we feel someone has basically gone from discussing what we said, to just having no basic respect and trying to "put you in your place" (that can kind of work, if its coming from someone three times your age, but some other child of the 90s trying to pull it off just looks a bit bunged on to me) we rarely just stop off long enough to say "gday guys, just wanted to say UserX is a bag of shit, bye". It has occured to me that a whole lot of page space would be saved by the occasional, sweet n simple "get fucked"... we end up writing the term using a thousand other words as a kind of stencil-spray effect...but when you add up the white space its loud n clear. Terrible efficiency in a permacultural sense, thats time we could be using to plant obscure plants in local parkland.

I can handle a bastard, a bastard wrapped in a saint or a sage's robes irks me though and always will. Interesting that for a place devoted to the growing, awareness and use of consciousness expanding, mind developing (allegedly) plants and compounds, we are just as prone to the useless routines we are trying to leave behind (well, some of us...those most prone seem the least aware of it somehow). Might be a matter of some are trying to escape, others to arrive... Would most of the oh so smart authors we quote take the time to talk to any of us when we are carrying on like pork chops around here? Goes to show that its not what you put into your body, its what comes out of your brain.Or maybe just how aware of it you are, and how willing you to accept that sometimes, we're all wankers.But then maybe if you are just like that, engaging in that kind of bullshit is less a thoughtcrime than what is being done by people that really should know better.

On the other hand, we'd make a KICKARSE political party from the looks of things

VM

[Auntyjack]

On the other hand, we'd make a KICKARSE political party from the looks of things

VM

...yeah but we'd need to make our own state. T how much land you got up on that mountain.....

AJ

[chilli]

Vertmorph, you truly are a funny bastard... "we rarely just stop off long enough to say "gday guys, just wanted to say UserX is a bag of shit, bye". It has occured to me that a whole lot of page space would be saved by the occasional, sweet n simple "get fucked"

This is classic, LMAO. And although what you say here is probably true it wouldn't be nearly as cathartic or delusion enhancing... I started out in this thread with bottled up angst and caring what people thought of me, and now I have that kind of smug lackadaisical reverse snobbery happening where I pretend I don't care and I almost believe it.

Much of your rants are smirkish, much are roll on the floor laughing, and even the parts that I guess are directed at me elicited that kind of worried laugh... At least you didn't say you weren't going to be my friend anymore, that would have been three in one thread, which would have to be a record surely.

Sooo.... spa?

Edited June 21, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[Vertmorpheus]

Don't give me that, I can read your spaces mate I know you're really saying I'm a lackwit and a koala botherer or maybe not... eh, none of it is directed at anyone in particular, if anything it's just based on the realisation that the people that can give you the shits are usually only that good at it because some part of them is a lot like some part of you (or me, you get what I mean). Least you can use words like "spirit" and "beauty" and yes even "plant" around here without anyones eyes glazing over, or them deciding you're gay haha. basically I can understand complete cave dwellers carrying on like the divides are unbridgeable but I reckon we can do better, I know I can anyway.

Dunno bout the spa... you say youre 6 foot 5, I'm 6 foot 4 so I reckon it might look a little like two skewers topped with olives standing in a shotglass full of detergent. But you can have one while I go hunt n gather something for tea

There are few around here I class as mates, and they know who they are..they are usually people that can discuss a point rather than a person haha... there are even fewer that I would actually write off as human beings on all levels.If any, to be honest. At any rate, I don't tend to tell people I'm not their friend anymore, its a bit silly. Like those couples that immediately jump to" well I'm leaving then" over the smallest of things, like leaving the butter out or something. Of course some I sure as shit wouldn't go actually sending any plant matter or material assistance to, but if they broke down out the front I'd let them use the phone (note... don't break down out the front of my house, bastards...gotta watch you lot...). My empathy and my anger...well not even anger, just irked-edness.. are fairly closely linked in a cyclical fashion, so i can think someone is ab it of a dick today and still give them a break tomorrow...I know I have my stupid days, weeks, years, and it's somehow easier for me to deal with people on a moment by moment basis rather than deciding "no, you are somehow minutely different from me in terms out outlook or experience, go away". Noone would have any friends if we all went around trying to pick holes in people. Just because I don't consider someone a friend, or a mate , which I think people lately are a bit Big Brotherish in their attitudes of (exchange some routine pleasantries today and its crying all over each other tomorrow)...doesnt mean I actually dislike them usually. whereas there are plenty of things about my real world mates that shit me to tears, but you cant stop being mates just because someones a bit of a fuckhead sometimes.

eh... just a bit worried, I mean if we're meant to be the broad minded ones, just how fucked in the head IS the rest of the planet

VM

[chilli]

Don't give me that, I can read your spaces mate I know you're really saying I'm a lackwit and a koala botherer or maybe not...

Uh , yeah 'not' is correct, you're just being paranoid... kind of sorry I said anything.

none of it is directed at anyone in particular

Haha, don't give me that

Oh well, on to the next misunderstanding.

*edit* btw, I'm 6'5" but I'm broad... I have this strange image of you now, I didn't picture you as a toothpick with an olive for a head.

Edited June 22, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[Vertmorpheus]

I'm more of a flat stave of bamboo with a muppet for a head really.

haha, what a bastard... I never took a thing "the wrong way". I am sometimes a bit paranoid, I wasnt then, and am not now. koalas are safe.

NONE of it was directed at anyone in particular, as many, many people have manifested those behaviours at various times. Archtypical innit? Transcends the personal approach, we default to basic human coping mechanisms in the face of conflict, or percieved conflict. I'm guilty of most em , so you can say its all about me if it makes you feel any better. In the context of its placement, I guess if anyone in THIS thread is applicable, it was shivas approach in terms of "things that kind of shit me" amd yours in terms of "people who know a box of commonsense when they see it" or whatever the fuck I said to start with. So if anything, the things that applied to you in any kind of way at all, in an immediate past sense, were entirely positive really. Shivas approach tweaked the same nerves as I read more and more as oskors tend to, theyre both probably decent blokes in their own way, and its easy to end up with the majestic approach .I listened to a LOT of black metal as a teenyfuckwit, read a lot of those books with the arch mage kinda approach, the sardonic assassin. its a stylish approach, but loses some punch when you suspect its being written in a pair of trackies and daggy socks after a feed and a bit of channel 9 If I think anyone anywhere is an outright waste of space, I tell them so, and if I simply can't tolerate something, I tell em that too... yes, in all cases, whether its bosses, family, mates or complete strangers. The world will fall to shit if noone takes a stand on anything ever. But I'm not about to go chucking verbal punches at people when I am just ab it pissy about one particular aspect of their behaviour that really doesnt impact my actual life much at all. why bother?

If I had the choice to do away with, or never again deal with anyone that irked me even in the slightest, I'd be the most correct, self determined, lonely fucker in history. I don't want that. Some of my favourite people say things I think are a bit bullshit/rude/judgemental on an almost constant basis. But it usually springs from a bitter kind of love, a warped kind of nobility. A spot on an orange doesnt mean I chuck it to the chooks, it's only a bit dinged up because it was lovely and sweet to start with.

All that shits me about you is that you are almost inevitably on the defensive when noone is really hassling you but then straight to the arrogant when someone is..but you already know that about yourself anyway, so I dont really need to tell you.mainly because I am prone to the same cycle anyway, so its lead to a kind of empathy with your "cause" (whatever that is) I actually think youre pretty funny most of the time, and fairly bright, generally "right" in your own context. Rarely personally attacking people, unti lyou get bitten first.But I know plenty of bright people, I actually prefer well intentioned fools than touchy intellectuals most of the time. Its nothing personal (or id have to have a problem with myself a lot of the time too) but cutting sarcasm is the new cool and im over it already, its really just sucking the fun and spirit out of a lot of modern life I think. But yeah, I think youre alright. Dunno, you might be into koalas yourself for all I know. But you bother me none.100 percent, honestly, basically, bullshitfree, diplomacy free, stop over thinking things you poor bastard, i yam what i yam, cross my legs and hope to wet myself, I don't mind you. No, thats not the biggest sarcastic remark in history. Just accept it or I'll put naked photos of new zealand on the net muhahaha. Sorted? Hope so. Sounds like you need a hug, a real deep burning hug not one of those routine, pick a box kinda arm exchanges. Not everyone hates your guts, even if sometimes you might (just going by your other thraed reply, not implying/insinuating/alluding to anything at all whatsoever inn anyway shape or form, may contain traces of nuts n all that.

you bastard,

VM