Your thoughts on Graffitti or 'Street Art'

[Ace]

Hi guys,

Just saw a doco on 'Street Art' in Melbourne last night on SBS (sorry, didnt catch the name - only saw the last half of it) which got me wondering. Personally, I find graffitti disgusting and think that it really ruins a city, but the 'artists' had a very different view on the matter. Their thoughts were that advertising is a pollutant of society, and this was their way of justifying it (or something along those lines).

I think that some of it is really quite creative - such as the huge amounts of political anti-war graffitti that has popped up since the war on 'terrorism' - especially about how John Howard, Bush and Blair are a bunch of tools. Fair enough - they have a good point personally, I like simple graffitti (in APPROPRIATE areas, like a skatepark, or a wall donated to said 'street art', not just the side of a building) in this manner - it has a point behind it and actually involves thinking, and likewise, gets others thinking.

What I dislike about graffitti is the common 'tags' and rubbish that you see painted all over town. That really gets my goat. Why the hell does someone get kicks out of seeing a wall with their scribble on it? It appears to be some sort of a message to other 'artists' on the street that this part of town has been claimed (or something to that effect). Isnt that just a tad wanky??

I think it'd be cool to see a few more of the more creative graffitti posted on here (if people are interested) - such as the anti war protests, or similar, just to see how creative people can get. Just a thought.

What are your opinions on the matter of 'Street Art'? Is it actually worthy of being labelled 'true art' (something that inspires, gets one thinking, stirs an emotion inside, ect) or is it just an eyesore to a city?

[Coschi]

i think street ART is fucking fantastic

suburbs like fitzroy wouldn't be what they are without graffiti

tags are another story, and are trash in my opinion

i can't believe some little shit would stick his dicky tag over awesome art like green's piccy up there

i'll get some pics of the shit around there and post them over the weekend (if i remember!)

[Μορφέας]

yes it is an art that is appreciated by many, but tagging is wrong and disgusting the way it vandalises property. Just like Skate Parks and stuff, there should be places where people can go and practise their art, that way it can be controlled. although there is a couple of big pieces around my area that are done by professionals that get paid for their work

If some little shit sprayed his tag all over my fence one night and i found him in the act who knows what would happen. (shove the can in his mouth and empty it)

Edited May 23, 2007 by Tepa

[Tripitaka]

The Melbourne cityscape should be all Street Art in my opinion.

Its one of the reasons I love the city so much.

There are visual prophets on the sidewalk.

Why should galleries dictate the viewing experience of the public and hold sway as to which artists should exhibit on their walls and often with commissions as heavy as 50%.

The Salon has a lot to answer for in terms of the Western way of perceiving art.

Doze Green is one of my favourite social prophets.

HERE

[BlackDragon]

The following is my viewpoint on the issue, being a former oldscool bomber

Ok, now it is art. The skill level is undeniable. Anyone thats sprayed a pressurepak at home knows it aint rocket science, but doing it with great finnesse, colour co-ordination and fine lines is a skill not many share.

Most of the artists would be great graphic designers(but who need more of them??) conceptual artists, free hand painters and comc book doodlers, but in reality the ammount of writers that actualy secure a job in a position where their skillz are put to use is minimal, under 2% of exceptional artists i would say. They do find their way in socitey, normally as bedroom artists(nowdays whe have the internet, we didnt back then) or they grow out of it and follow another past time. Funnily enough they make their way to signwriting companies When i started at my my old signshop(i worked for one of adelaide biggest sign companies) there was a whole wack of graffers. It was actually a company joke(graffers inc.) to see all the younger crew with skill all turned up to signwriting shops for work experience. They know they have skills, they just dont know or havent been shown how to express them properly.

A few highly skilled fellows have started their own business/design and street art shops, only a few tho. Check out Kab's effort, he was slighlty older than me, was a bit of my hero AREA101

How can you compare ones skills or medium to the blatent advertisment bombardment thats taking place today? Just because its "sanctioned space" i cant be used by anyone else than advertisment companies?? So if you pay its ok to plaster up crap ??

Im actually fond full colour pieces around Australia's cities, its a great splash of colour in what would be an otherwise dismal grey and drab toned society. Much like drugs what drugs do to the mind, graff does to the tone of industrial boredom. I shouldnt have to draw the similarites between them, as they walk hand in hand anyways, most graffers are acid or weed inspired anyways.

Asking a graffer thats used to vibrant pieces to stop and do legals is like asking a singer to sing in the shower and not on a public stage, its just not the same. The environment(scape your putting paint to), conditions(weather, rain hail or shine) and pressure(laws, security guards etc) all atribute to your work, style and end product.

"Tagging" is merely a rite-of-passage. Its the way for the young graffer to get his name up, so people know he is around. These days, I can tell whats going on around here, who the new writers are and how their style has developed over the years just from a stroll around the shopping malls or driving through town. Other writers tend to do the same. Its not for any real reason that your keeping an eye out, but being a signwriter also you tend to look at everything twice anyways.

Now and then you see and oldscooler thats decided to bomb for the night, probly the first time in 10 years. It makes you smile and reminise about the old times, and you wonder what they are up to now... Its weird. Its like a little note in the walls of history, you know they are still active in the community or arts, and you can see how they have matured, and sometimes, how pissed they were!!

Generally tagging is the first skill that writers learn, as they learn more about letter shapes and designs, it takes them to the point of going all out on a full colour car(train cart) or wall. Then it builds from there, one or two crappy efforts, you want to get bigger and better, better location, more visability etc etc...

Graffiti is not just the tags you see around the place, its in all forms of advertisment, billborads, neon lights, for sale signs, web banners everything. Advertisers are constantly ripping into graffers at the same time using their exact same means to put their point across. I guess its whos paying the dollars right??

PS; I never trashed or destroyed any property i ever sprayed on, removal of my work was the only cost to society, when they deemed it unacceptable.. Ive plastered more signs up for corporates than i ever have my own work.

Hope that helps in giving a bit of insight into the world of graffers, and remeber, all graffers are different and all have differeng reasons for their work.

BD

Edited May 23, 2007 by BlackDragon

[Kenny Blister]

Street art brightens up the concrete wasteland. Public property is yours and mine... Colour it up

I'm a massive fan of activist stencil and sticker art. Easy to do as well.

[Ace]

Thanks for the replies so far guys - seems as though there is a few passionate folks around these parts! I totally agree - after watching that show last night, my eyes have opened. I still loathe tacky graffitti that pops up as nothing more than a bit of spray painted scribble on a wall, but when you come across some of the more intricate pieces, they can be pretty amazing!

There was quite a bit about the new move to stencils and stickers - both of which I thought were a very cool take on the old spray can Any idea how they make them 'stickers'? There was one massive mural that was drawn onto what appeared to be standard paper, then was trimmed to clean up any excess on the sides, then looked to be glued up onto a wall (using some sort of home made paste). Twas a truly awesome artwork - a good 3 stories tall too (up the side of a block of apartments).

I also rather liked the little creatures that would symbolise an artist - like a little alien that would be placed in very random places, but didnt go and pollute (IMO) the city. There was also a few huge anti war stick-ons that were posted above main roads like bill boards that were done very well. I think I'd be all for it if they were to do only the large murals that involved a lot of intricacy, or if it was just the more creative ones, but seeing tag after tag of crap just really ruins it IMO.

Like Tepa said - if I saw someone paint over my fence with a tag (or anything for that matter ) or go over a really cool mural, then I'd be pretty pissed. Tags are what really drag graffitti away from art. But like it's been said - art can be and will be anything. I guess its just not always going to be 'picture perfect' to everyone...

So is Melbourne really covered in this street art? I havent been there since I was a kiddie, so cant really remember, but I'd have thought that Sydney would be the worst (probably an unfair generalisation). What do the average joes think of it?

Sorry to sounds so hopeless, but Canberra is actually relatively clean of graffitti (apart from the very occasional rubbish tag, and a few awesome murals at the local skateparks).

[Coschi]

What the fuck is Kill Pixie ???

Doesn't look particularly artistic imo

here's some fitzroy characters

and the company i work for do some stuff for connex, we got to our site one morning to see this

coolest tag i've seen

[AndyAmine.]

Im a big fan of graf, particularly 'stencil' art and spin off genre's, if you are keen on seeing some really wonderful artworks get some copies of 'Juxtapoz" magazine, its one of the best.

http://www.juxtapoz.com/jux/

On the subject of tagging and throw-ups etc., personaly I like a lot of it because I grew up with it and can see the diferent styles, meanings, people, talent.

This said, 90% of it is all garbage and done by 14yrs boys with too much time on their hands and very little talent, but everyone has to start somewhere and its starting off with tagging that gives most people the can control to be able to move onto biger and better artworks/pieces.

[shruman]

"Street art brightens up the concrete wasteland. Public property is yours and mine... Colour it up

I'm a massive fan of activist stencil and sticker art. Easy to do as well. "

Kenny sums it up pretty well.

I love graf art, awesome!

One offs are great, stenciling is awesome for mass proliferation, & stickers are a great form u can make epics with little risk factor of putting then up anywhere or they can b used for reproduction, tags aint my favourite but hey u gotta start somewhere & if they tag over a masterpiece hopefully there will b 3 masterpieces there next week, gets a bit carried away in america where gangs tag on other gangs tags & end up shootin each over for it, hope it never gets that way here.

[Ace]

Public property is yours and mine... Colour it up

Very true, but what about private property, like if you lived on the back of a footpath or a nature reserve or something and wake up one day to see it covered in paint? Would you crack the shits, or take it with a grain of salt? There was pics of people's cars, vans, trucks and plenty of train cars covered in tags and some pretty cool art - but what would you do if someone vandalised your private property? Is this something generally frowned upon within the street art community, or is it a matter of just inking a blank canvas?

There was a stencil of Don Bradman and even one of Ned Kelly - they were pretty sweet :D

[AndyAmine.]

I have a big problem with any kind of graff or vandalism of private property, generally speaking there is code of ethics in this area and people who graff on private property usualy get taught to do otherwise, one way or another.

The rest of the people doing it are usualy young kids who dont know any better or young adults in their 'anarchist' "MEAT IS MURDER" phase.. hehe..

I know a guy that used to do 'scratchies' on peoples car windows (using a Sharp piece of glass to scratch a window), he learned that was a bad idea very quickly.. LOL..

[Guest homoGenius]

I caught the same program from 11:10 onwards and loved it.

I don't like the oldstyle pieces that are like a nightmare from the 80's Beat Street and shit rap films and the whole American thing.

I LOVE the stencil art though. Absolutely love the creativity,freshness and cerebralness of it all. I agree that Melbourne's city centre has some amazing stuff and fuck all those people who would want to eradicate it. I secretly wish I was clever enough to think of something like them myself and have the balls to do it. I'm far too conservative to do it but the countercultural side of me is glad that there are people like them who are out there.

[Guest homoGenius]

I have a big problem with any kind of graff or vandalism of private property, generally speaking there is code of ethics in this area and people who graff on private property usualy get taught to do otherwise, one way or another.

The rest of the people doing it are usualy young kids who dont know any better or young adults in their 'anarchist' "MEAT IS MURDER" phase.. hehe..

I know a guy that used to do 'scratchies' on peoples car windows (using a Sharp piece of glass to scratch a window), he learned that was a bad idea very quickly.. LOL..

I agree with the need to respect private property.

But what of all the advertising that you are subjected to in Western culture? Should it always be people and corporations with money that get the average person's mindshare?

I think the real boundary is really about what the art is serving?

Shithead 'tags' and signatures are from the EGO. Stencil art with a message and aesthetic value are much more selfless and seek to enlighten the other man. That's the type I endorse.

[PD.]

BD said it all, just makes me wann go out run up them coalies and top to bottom. :D

Born to bomb....

TASLER TDK.

[XipeTotec]

Although the government would call me a vandal, i consider myself an artist.....

i spray, "ring a root" around the place with my ex's phone number...

Edited May 23, 2007 by shroomytoonos

[BlackDragon]

I find stencil art to be a cheap immitation of graff. Its almost like the new "cool" thing to do, how can it be more expressive than a full colour piece??

I LOVE the stencil art though. Absolutely love the creativity,freshness and cerebralness of it all.

Serious? It another modern abomination of an old art for, lets get it out there as quick as possible as easily as possible. Some of them are even as blatently obvious as the old"Meat is murder" theme, not much different. You really need to check out some real pieces HG, some are out of this world.

Where is the time and effort put into a decent wall or even a freehand stencil(ill get some pics soon, theres been a bit sprouting up around my 'ol don barber). Stencils were frowned upon in my days, its the easy way out...wheres the canwork? just like lots of things these days tho...easier and quicker... more of a political statment than an artpiece, dont get me wrong, they are clever,and it is are, but i wouldnt call it graff.

PD you from down south? The Mount? TDK ahhh back in the days...

BD.

[PD.]

Yeh BD, But it has been a long time since i walked a line. Hehe, bak in the Tuxan days

After i saw the doco on TV last nite it made me wanna just get straight back out there and go for a spree. I think i mite do a few outlines tonite and see if i still got the flow, then its on the train and off i go, just dont think i got the nerve to rack a coat full of tuxans anymore though haha.

havent got any spare orange fatties layin about do ya BD?

[BlackDragon]

Ah the sweet sweet smell of tuxans.. nothing beats it.... and the coverage... oh dont get me started on how well they fill with such outstanding colour!!

No caps or cans around anymore(although there is a satin black, fluro orange and candy pink out there in the shed:) ) I think Kab still sells fatcaps and fineliners, and da clinik and a few others still sell em too, no doubt there is plenty of nibs online too. Prob heaps in Germany. Im just trying to think of the cap combos i used back then it was such a long time ago... male/female cans etc...

Keep bombin, even if its only on paper, keep the flames alive!!

Nah, i dont see myself filling up my bomber jacket with a dozen cans nowdays either ;)

Bd

Edited May 23, 2007 by BlackDragon

[shruman]

Wot I love bout stencils is that it makes art accessible to the masses, there is true art in making a stencil, repetition many people will walk by a masterpiece & wont even notice its hard not to notice a stencil cause of its shear volume, I love finding stencils in places u would think to look & couldnt fit a full size piece.

Wot do u think of Andy Warhol & his crew doing screen prints?

"I find stencil art to be a cheap immitation of graff. Its almost like the new "cool" thing to do, how can it be more expressive than a full colour piece??"

"Serious? It another modern abomination of an old art for, lets get it out there as quick as possible as easily as possible. Some of them are even as blatently obvious as the old"Meat is murder" theme, not much different. You really need to check out some real pieces HG, some are out of this world."

[BlackDragon]

Did Warhol claim his art to be graffiti? or just pop art? If you infereing that stencil art is pop art your correct, pop art, not graf. I dont think warhol was into doing wildstyle fullcars, how can you compare the two?

Warhol was ok(i dont really think its that great, but it is ingenious and different) but i can see why some people dislike him. traditionalists see reworking old ideas as just that, thats i draw my conclusions to as why stencil art is called stencil art, its not called graffiti is it.

I don't like the oldstyle pieces that are like a nightmare from the 80's Beat Street and shit rap films and the whole American thing.

Well theres no choice. It where it all began, its a part of history and from those old styles progressed more and more stylez... crazy and free styles. Ignoring the history is not knowing the whole story. Many modern artist still draw insiration form those US shit rap films...

Its ok, i dont mind defending graf, my whole life i have run on the fringe of society and have to explain it to the uninformed, i took soo much shit about rap/hip hop/ graff and skating when i was young....even got bashed by bogans for it... now look at them all, hip hop has been pimped by the media for all its worth, as has skating and Dj'ing. Graff is one on the only elements left that hasnt been to whored out. Except, if you look at recent advertisments aimed at youth, then its ok to have spray and paint dribbles on a faded out throw up in the backgraound... its ok isnt it, cause it was printed on paper in a fashion magazine.... not sprayed on the walls.

Ah... ive used up my time on the soapbox tonight,

Thanks for listening all

Bd.

[shruman]

"Did Warhol claim his art to be graffiti? or just pop art? If you infereing that stencil art is pop art your correct, pop art, not graf. I dont think warhol was into doing wildstyle fullcars, how can you compare the two? "

Sorry BD this is wot I meant.

"lets get it out there as quick as possible as easily as possible."

[Evil Genius]

I love Graffitti. When i was younger i sprayed myself. I used to do it in order to prove my love to girls i liked. But then i was arrested when i sprayed a big piece on the wall of a kindergarten because i wanted to impress the kindergarten teacher. That brought me to senses. I was pretty dumb at that time and had a Problem with my Hormones. Today i really have a Problem with Vandalism but i still like good Graffitti as long as it´s not on my walls. But i also feel for the poor people who have to remove them. There should be more legal walls for good artists. bye Eg

[Kenny Blister]

Wow, this thread took off...

Any idea how they make them 'stickers'?

If I were doing such a thing I'd use avery labels and a photocopier. There are many ways though. Check out Stencil Revolution.

The rest of the people doing it are usualy young kids who dont know any better or young adults in their 'anarchist' "MEAT IS MURDER" phase.. hehe..

lol, I thought it was 'PROPERTY IS THEFT' , but yeah, private property is off limits. I'd be pretty pissed off if I found my car covered in tags, stickers etc.

BlackDragon, I see your point and have big respect for your skill. I see that there is little comparison between graf and stencils/stickers, other than I would classify them all as street art. Graf is powerful because of it's complexity, colour, size, and skill required (edit: and a big set of balls, lol). Stencil art may lack in those areas (although don't underestimate the complexity of a layered stencil), but the positioning of a stencil, how the message/image sits in it's immediate landscape, the ability to provoke thought, is important and is what makes it obscurely artistic. They are subversive soundbytes and ontological anarchism at its most basic.

I've dabbled in a bit of both, never got real great at graf, but was constantly impressed by the artwork of my mates (who, incidently, played a bit of indoor cricket with two of the hilltop hoods back in the day, but now I'm just name-dropping... ) and they express sentiments similar to yours, to which I say, embrace the post-modernism you old-skool farts

Edited May 23, 2007 by Kenny Blister

[BlackDragon]

Hey Kenny,

Im possibly the worst "hanger-on-er" that i know, i just love the nostalgia (sp) and history that goes with it. That with everything tho, sometimes i feel like a bloody 70yr old, talking about these "whipper snappers" that just dont know what its all bout. Everything is quick and easy these days... its just a pet hate of mine, I dont mind embracing technology, i just dont think that technology replaces good ol hard work and balls.

Speaking of name dropping, my best bud (Dj Reflux- Funkoars dj) has just gone on tour with the hoods, to england and beyond. Its amazing to see the doors open up for the boys, the industry has always shunned hip hop, it was a big joke to them all at the start, glad to see all the hard work getting acknowledgement finally. Great to see them on Obese records too, independant all the way!! Fuck the big record companies!!

embrace the post-modernism you old-skool farts

ha, if we did, them who would be here to tell you the stories from back in the day?... Ha ha!! You have it in one there tho Kenny, embracing modernism is a big hurdle for me...