Ace Posted May 24, 2007 Ace.. what you think? AJ, I'm more than happy with this idea. If the mods and Torsten are keen and happy to have an FAQ in each forum (eg cacti, ethnos, etc), then I'd be happy to spend a bit of time doing some write ups and posting them when I can. So, most importantly - what should we include in the FAQs? Should these be just posted, or linked as PDF docs? What would people prefer? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auntyjack Posted May 24, 2007 I was thinking more along the lines of organising links to threads (the most informative and valuable ones) within the forum. Much like I posted above, Torst had some good sugestions in the FAQ poll thread I made. I think we should get some input from the mods relevant to the forum and go from there. Where I was comming from in the begining was by providing links to informative threads this would encourage the newer members to dig a little first and also it would arm them with the right terminology to UTSE and make it effective. Hopefully by the time they are ready to post they will be introducing new ideas, filling the gap in existing information and so forth. The point of the poll I started was to define the FAQ thread in one forum only to start with, iron out the bugs and then implement it in the others. As for correlating information into PDF's etc that seems a pretty mamoth task to be starting with, it would be easier if the information for that was structured in the FAQ thread first. AJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indigo264nm Posted May 24, 2007 Every noob goes through a stage of asking for an ID ending up Cereus spp. and non seeding MG - I know I did when I first started posting on EBA about 4 years ago. My only opinion on the matter is that people should always UTSE and most importantly people asking for info on specific plants should CHECK OUT THE ETHNOBOTANICAL WIKI. Then when in doubt ask a question. Somebody should make a thread and sticky the wiki link because it's got a lot of good information available for many plants that questions are commonly asked about... i.e. germinating certain seeds, grafting cacti, what type of cuttings one should take from specific plants etc etc. I think the Q&A idea is excellent - but new members to read it before posting questions will be the tricky part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertmorpheus Posted May 24, 2007 I like the linked idea, if anyone has time to do a rewrite and a clean up that is of course great stuff but it'd be a bit of work for a bunch of people that are fairly busy as it is. maybe "Articles" could be sub'd to a thread as a poll, and if the majority after say one month reckon it's worth keeping , or want to recommend changes, they can be posted as replies, with the overall keepability being voted on by the masses.maybe. The info is often already here, but finding it is the bastard, yes some don't look but I know myself and some others try out guts out on some things and get nowhere for whatever reason. I think a lot of users would take advantage of the info they are usually just trying to find anyway. Those of us that know anything about anything should also be thinkin about what happens to what is in our heads and hearts when we drop dead (not to be too dramatic there ). Just about everyone has a solid book or two in them, about something or other, or at least a worthy set of links haha. Re: ids... sometimes I just want to know what things are, not everything is done with a view to getting wasted (trying to ID a cereus at the moment as it happens )A plant will stick in my mind and just tickle me until I find out more about it.. and then knowing that guy tends to help me get to know the rest of his family a lot more quickly (and without bothering anyone in here). Given that plants tend to be known in certain areas (ie I could put together a list of Thing You Should Find Down the Road In Northern Brisbane and surrounds), people might be helped out if they could click---QLD...SEQ....Cactus or Succ...tall or short.... spiky or not.... pronounced ribs or not... I know that is very idealistic, might happen if we all coughed up some donations now n then so T could hire a thousand monkeys to type for a thousand days... but certainly if we did up a list on the more commonly found things around inhabited bits of aus (there arent THAT many, and we are well spread around) people could at least have a run thru it. I know I put up a cerus peru. pic once, but that was on the basis of knowing at least that columnar, ribbed, not too branchy and those long flowers were SOME sign of being on the right kind of track. I now know just how common they are, around here... so if there was even just a mention of "tall cactus, Brisbane" people could click, without having to ask. Once again, wishful... but I'm doing up a compilation here of handy things to keep an eye out for around here, I'll chuck that over to someone when it's done. Even just arranging it around a couple names, decent photo or two and then some reliable links would help... I see a lot of things just hanging around ...people think I am planning on breaking into their houses quite a bit, sorry if anyone here is one of em Plant ID can be a complete bitch even for alleged "professionals", if you don't know the magic words... I've had little kids give me names on things, complete non-gardeners, it's amazing what we pick up from our mums! But asking half a dozen different "paid to find out" types left me stumped.Information is SO valuable that there should be a global index of who to ask about what in your neck of the woods, like freecycle but... skillcycle? sumthin. wiki is a handy thing but ultimately only as reliable as people are willing to keep it... that rubbish about bud trichs starting red and fading to clear was up there for a fair while... and when ya need to know NOW, like sphinx's mate, that's the last thing you need. But yeah, cross checking is a blessed thing. Some other wiki articles are almost pure gold, very helpful with a basic cactus grounding as well (I find them the hardest, but like any seemingly giant wall of info, once you find a foothold you can start to climb it fairly easily). Many keys etc are available online, but these are often location specific... no worries, in NSW you have plantnet FO , woohoo... problem is that in SEQ I still end up using the sydney gardens site more than I'd like, and it often gets me close but not definite.. cootha gardens id's for free but that takes a more time than some of us have on a regular basis. One simple hint is to use search engines other than google... I find I end up at the info quicker, without the first 20 pages of hits being some scam artist trying to sell bags of lucerne, or plant matter than can often be found locally for a fraction of the price.Find what TAFE in your part of the world does hort, and go check out their books (anyone can wander in, take a digicam and some spare batteries and spend a couple hours "shopping". Grovely TAFE in brissie has some great books, I never get the name of the one I check out but it's ya classic two inch thick "some crazed polish scientist wandering the amazon" SA plant index. Maybe we could all (within the sensible limit of pinching entire books and failing to credit writers and publishers) get our print material dealing with say the "top 20 ethnos" digitised and onhere somewhere... maybe just linked here and stored elsewhere so T doesn't get the copyright coppers on his bum. Just about everything is in a book somewhere, but if you live in Dead Sheep Creek, northern territory your local mobile library van probably can't help you out. Information is gold... but there's no reason everyone has to dig their own mine under the hills hoist... esp with so many mostly unused nuggets already laying around.When trying to mine areas already fairly well exhausted, you end up having to acid wash scrap , and that leaves a lot of pollution around. forgot to take my metaphor meds, sorry guys, let me know if anyone needs a hand with anything specific eh? Would be nice to do some volunteering that doesn't involve burning the crap out of myself at the forge for the edu-tainment of the public haha. GD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auntyjack Posted May 24, 2007 Thanks GD...gunna hold you to that! Like a lollipop on a car seat.. Muahahhahah..*COFF*... AJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted May 24, 2007 *crickets chirping amongst the silence* Nice one AJ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XipeTotec Posted May 24, 2007 (edited) i have not really contributed to this thread... because i dont really care. Someone has probally already said something along these lines.. but... for example... I was a cacti noob when i first came here. I asked alot of questions and got some great answers (among other things). NOw, when other noobs ask similar questions... I am more than happy to jump in and give advice on these noob cacti questions, or help with ID's when I can, etc. I think its not a bad system. Noobs to certain fields are very enthusiastic (and ace is very enthusiastic about everything), so it is often other noobs offering their newly learnt and tested knowledge. They also appreciate the wisdom of more experienced members, which is second to none. I think it is working well, apart from the occasional tiff between folks (which is bound to happen with any gathering of peeps) I can understand if more experienced members dont want to deal with noob questions, but on the same note, they could always ignore, and let other members offer advice if the wish. thats my soapbox anyway.. I have already given my opinion on uste... but just a refresher... I think people asking questions about there new found passion, most likely do alot of research outside of the forum, and indeed in the forum. I think there is no substitute for having an actual discussion with someone experienced in a subject.. to allow them to get info directly relating to a question, and also, being able to clarify points etc, like I have said before... this is what a discussion forum is about... if we all just used the search engine... it would just be the internet. ... Also, im not adverse to a FAQ pinned for each forum etc...even though im not giving my permission or anything, just saying ok, im finished now Edited May 24, 2007 by shroomytoonos Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Legba Posted May 24, 2007 I kinda feel like a newb again, but not in the way Ronny does... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Øskorei Posted May 24, 2007 This is an important discussion that Jack raises, perhaps it was misunderstood. I think there's a real issue with people who have had limited experience in any given field when they start coming across as an expert after a handful of grows. For example Little Johnny Jockstrap has completed four mycological projects, and has read lots of information online, so combines the theoretical with the practical and proceeds to post exhaustive responses across many threads on how so-and-so works best, or such & such might be of detriment to the person questing information. A great idea (theoretically, Im not suggesting a complete re-engineer) would be for the info under the avatar to include options that might read: Cacti grows from seed: >numerical value< Years been Gardening: >numerical value< Shroom Grows: >numerical value< Chem Teks: >numerical value< ...and so on. The onus would be on the member to post this or not, but who would intentionaly bullshit about this? I think the issue Jack brings up isnt that people are deliberatly overstating themselves, but that they truly feel that theyre experts in a given field with very little prac. under their belt. Which, despite all good intentions, is fraught with dangers to the person seeking advice - not only with poisoning potential (myc, chem), expolosions (chem), but also 'harmless' negatives like non-germination. Keep in mind that many people might only read the first few responses, and if one sounds like it's on the money, they'll go with that info. And I think it's more 'noobs' to an interest rather than to the forum. For example I could join a masterbation forum tomorrow, yet be able to provide over 20 years of knowledge on the hand-jive Maybe I should start one, it would have the biggest membership of all the forums on the WWW Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertmorpheus Posted May 24, 2007 (edited) thats a fairly interesting idea oskorei, but I reckon there'd be a few issues...I do know what you're getting at though. no matter how big the numbers, you can still cock something up despite best intentions,and anyone that wouldn't bullshit with the stats wouldn't bullshit in a convo either unless it was for logical enough reasons.That'd have to be one LONG list... and then have to be cross refereced to climatic date (growing coffee is a lil more difficult in tasmania than it is in SEQ, for example, so the number of grows would have to be converted to a "coffee percentile rating" or something. gets a bit involved... especially when we'd have to list a hundred different plants and activities. We could have a member rating system, kind of a confidence scale, subject to change bla bla,"rate this post" or something like that... not some BS karma system easily inflated by mailing white rhino beans left right n centre, but something that basically shows how much time other people have for what you tend to come out with. maybe show the lowest and highest rating for the last month. I think people work out soon enough who to listen to about what. Don't ask me about anything but the most rudimentary of cactus questions. But if you want to know about irrigation, no worries. Recycling weird crap yes, ultra sterile NASA shroom teks no, herbs yes, obscure south american forest giants,no.Though I spend a bit of time with open eyes in rainforests here, which helps out a little with some things.... and anyone that I share info or the time of day with, works out pretty soon that I am all mouth on some subjects and all ears on others. That's how it's meant to work I think, so that the info peaks and valleys all level out, with everyone knowing enough about whatever they want to, you can still specialise or remain ignorant by choice but yeah... ya know what I mean. And then somehow in all of that would have to be taken into account that (to my mind at least) those operating on more limited options...costs, legality, level of past experience, official qualification, climatic hassles, water restrictions all that... show a bit more punch than those that are in a position to get onto whatever site, charge the Super Deluxe Ethno Grow Kit and Instructional DVD to the plastic andbe up and running a month later. There is level of outcome, and level of ... inherent proficiency. Some people are just a bit crap at things, and some just tend to be basically decent at a lot of things.Others are great at some things but crap at others...so someone with a 100 percent shroom growing rating at first glace might seem a bit out of place making suggestions in a thread about growing a plant, but turns out its a fungicide question, or something to do with maintaining humidity, innoculation, whatever.... things cross over a lot, nature tends to have the same rules at different locations and scales.Greenthumbs, plantkillers, and the Instant Super Grow Formula mob in between. either way, it all starts to get a bit... yeah. dunno. icky? not really a word for it. my number is bigger than your number is what causes a lot of the hassles in the real world, don't want to see too much of that in here, if I have any choice in the matter. We might as well start giving out official titles, stripes and framed certificates. People are bright enough to work out what is and isn't bullshit after a while, and if you have just shelled out big bucks for some seeds, and want em to germ JUST right, relying on one or two replies in some forum probably isn't the way to go about it. But then they'll work that out, and be a lil further away from "noob" themselves. take care guys GD and you pair, knock it off or its pineappleoscopy's for the both of you Edited May 24, 2007 by greendreams Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Øskorei Posted May 24, 2007 Guy, your pertinent rant is most worthy, but you're getting away from the basic experience/tek aspect. EVERY grower should know their own zone variation, and act accordingly. In fact some of the better feedback I've seen in relation to both vascular propagation and fungi funkilation even mentions specifics to temperature & humidity levels. As friends of the earth/peeps who play god (note little g), we can all manipulate situations to our requirements if the temps aren't favourable (whoa, sweating out cases for major flush in winter, stick em on the water-heater-thanks Professor Cubert). See, it's not about 'newbs' or 'senor-oobs' giving specifics to temperament, for even the most experienced cannot suggest an all-purpose, it's more that the GENERAL information is coming from someone who simply doesn't have enough practical experience under his/her belt to start waxing on in every second thread about 'the best method'. The key is for relative 'noobs' who have had a few flushes/sow successes reeeeeeet!/chem extracts to by all means share their 'new' knowledge, but perhaps preempt their threads with "Im only new to it, but Ive found that.....". Coming across as a font of infinite wisdom holds no real purpose, it only proports to mislead the true 'noobs' who might not read further than the first few responses to a question. I say this as a member who asked about growing Triffids on a forum a while back, got some advice from what turned out to be a noobie, then my plants went and killed my family, my neighbours, my iguana and the local baker. My regret is that I can no longer easily get bread or stroke my favourite lizard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonnySimulacrum Posted May 24, 2007 I kinda feel like a newb again, but not in the way Ronny does... I am a 'Born Again' SAB user Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auntyjack Posted May 24, 2007 (edited) *crickets chirping amongst the silence* Nice one AJ! You're a farkin crak Ace.... hahahahhaha thats GOLD! Edited May 24, 2007 by Auntyjack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
