Opening the doors of perception

[Ace]

If psychedelics supposedly have the ability to 'open the doors of perception', to 'clear the mist around the many questions in life' and to 'break on through to the other side', then what exactly is on the 'other side'? Does anyone have the answer to the biggest question that psychedelics claim to hold the key to? Is there some truth out there that everyone will learn, or is it like a personal 'Holy Grail' where the partaker in the psychedelic substance finds whatever is meant to be found for them, and each partaker has something different to find?

Just a few questions bugging me and my personal quest. Is it all worth it, or is it just a few un-natural experiences that make up a part of ones life?

I guess the biggest questions are:

- What is on the other side?

- What is there to be found?

- Is it all worth it?

- Has anyone been enlightened and changed in a life-altering way by the use of psychedelics?

So many questions, lets hope there are answers out there...

[gerbil]

If psychedelics supposedly have the ability to 'open the doors of perception', to 'clear the mist around the many questions in life' and to 'break on through to the other side', then what exactly is on the 'other side'?

Reality

[gerbil]

I guess the biggest questions are:

- What is there to be found?

- Has anyone been enlightened and changed in a life-altering way by the use of psychedelics?

To me, answers are essentially irrelevant, I see most of the time of our lives as a literatic wank, we never seem to actually live, more so talk about how to live and analyse a previously analysed thing to analyse that

What's to be found? The workings of existence, IMO

(not simply human based/focussed, existence as a very very broad term, and not specifically biotic material)

but what I wrote is irrelevant in the broader sense

I feel every experience is drastically life altering in a beneficial sense if you allow it to be and put the work into it, and the work isn't necessarily the 4 or so hours of the journey.

You've got an interesting sparkle Ace.

Edited April 11, 2007 by gerbil

[Ace]

But what is reality?

Is it just some distorted way of thinking or is it a clear and profound state of mind that can be found when voyaging?

Is this something that the worlds population can and should seek, or is it something that only a select few could handle?

Some of the greatest legends of music have used psychedelics to assist them with communicating with the masses via a guitar and a few lyrics - is this the sort of thing that reality will assist with?

Should this state of mind be used for creative purposes to further the knowledge of the human race?

Do psychedelics actually have a purpose in assisting the advance of life?

Cant believe the can of worms that have been opened here - sorry all, but there are far too many unanswered questions here to let sit - please assist me in finding the answers I and so many others seek...

[Ace]

You've got an interesting sparkle Ace.

Thanks Gerbil - just something that started niggling in the back of my mind I am in one of those odd, philosophical moods where I feel I should have answers, but all I can find is questions - such is life

[ENtiTY]

Personally I think its unique to each individual. Everyones perception on and experiences in the world are different. Thought can only be based on these factors so what one person discoveres will be different from the next.

Whats to be found? Truth and knowledge I believe. Truth about ones self and the world around us. In a mind expanded state the facts become some much more apparent which lead to realisations and enlightenment in my experience. Psychedelics seem to be able to strip away the walls our minds seem to use when its easier to ignore something rather than face it. With so many walls it can be easy to loose sight of whats important and find peace.

I have found Teachers and Healers to be named justly. They have helped me deal with things that I have shuffled to the back of my mind because it is easier. Once dealt with and confronted, life becomes alive again and possibilities are endless.

[ThunderIdeal]

for starters i don't exactly think unnatural is the right word for these experiences when there are so many cases of animals in nature medicating themselves. unusual experiences maybe?

-what is on the other side?

an ambitious question, i think it depends. you know how in hinduism there are many levels and extensions of god? i'm not talking about the demigods. i have experienced contact with a level of god and was entirely convinced of the reality of the experience. for a brief, self-induced moment the contact was not like communication, it was like pure contact. my conviction remains.

-what is there to be found?

truth! novelty! change! your worst nightmare! perhaps truth beyond usefulness, but i don't intentionally concentrate on matters of practicality. if you do, maybe you gain insight into things of a more useful nature, i don't know, rubbing two sticks together, hunting beasts, wearing their skin? i'm being silly of course, we are past all of that but we still have pressing issues to deal with. perhaps what is revealed (what is found) is exactly what is needed, as you suggested, but we don't immediately see that. as an arguable example look at nostradamus - his predictions are often explained AFTER the event (new orleans, sept 11), but that doesn't make what he saw irrelevant.

-is it all worth it?

worth what? is life worth it? it introduces novelty to my life in a way that many people out there couldn't achieve with their wildest night of binge drinking. i don't think it's a matter of cost. i think talk of 'cost' is the fear talking, in my case it certainly is. what have we got to lose? our health, our mind, our comfortable life? none of those are really ours anyway, and i personally don't see psychadelic endeavours as endangering those things. i've seen my self laid bare and there wasn't much there anyway.

-has anyone been enlightened and changed in a life-altering way?

i don't know if it's appropriate to launch into a trip report in this thread, but yes. i'm not saying psychadelics are greater than meditation but i don't think you can get the same results.. i think they augment each other. both provide experiences beyond ordinary means, and if they don't well you must have been meditating or tripping without knowing it. even pot changed me in life altering ways, gave my convictions strength when otherwise they might have disappeared and made it clear to me that i'm not going to spend this life 'fitting in' to consensus reality. i will be the judge of what is real, but that may not have been the case were it not for psychadelics.

i feel more attuned to the changes rapidly happening in this world.

also, my priorities are utterly different. i still attend to material concerns, heck they might even be at the top of the list, but at least the aren't the WHOLE list.

-but what is reality?

-Should this state of mind be used for creative purposes to further the knowledge of the human race?

i tend to think that ordinary experience reflects reality, but is probably one of the furthest things from it. as for the masses? there are different philosophies on which path is nobler - self betterment, or helping those behind you. i choose the former. what if they're not really behind me, then all i'm doing is holding them back with my inferior consciousness. i'll let the cosmos help others just like it helps me. there are probably countless cases of one human being helping another to grow, but should i be so arrogant to think that is my place? i don't think so. if opportunities arise i will do my best but i won't chase them, and i won't seek the ears of the masses because they honestly won't listen anyway. through psychadelics my life is changed, through my actions the planet is changed, through this change others are affected. no need to get in peoples faces, i think, because you probably don't have a clue about their issues or why they are here.

edit: stupid mistakes

Edited April 11, 2007 by ThunderIdeal

[Aya]

Nice post Thunder. Strong and honest.

-has anyone been enlightened and changed in a life-altering way?

i don't know if it's appropriate to launch into a trip report in this thread, but yes.

I'd like to hear of your experience. It's always great to hear honest, actual life changing experiences amongst the "i was so messed up and then i started seeing shit" reports. If you feel like sharing perhaps another thread? or perhaps Ace wont mind in this thread? Dont wish to derail your thread Ace

Edited April 11, 2007 by Ayahuascara

[Ace]

Lol - I dont mind, but I think the topic I brought up really needs to be discussed (not only for myself, but for the reat of the community no doubt), so if it could be kept somewhat on track with these questions - preferably answering some along the way - then by all means go ahead

But I think that was more a reference to the legalities of the forums and the fact that Torst isnt a fan of such things as it gives a bad name to his associated store - fair enough in my eyes.

Thanks guys, so far there has been some fantastic responses - no doubt there are many more, and probably many follow up questions - but it is a very interesting topic IMO. I hope everyone is able to see both sides of the arguement - and I certainly hope that 'reality' holds many truths and lessons. I can only imagine that is why so many people have traversed the psychedelic realms since the discovery of these plants...

[ThunderIdeal]

yep its a great thread and challenging too. there is naturally gonna be a strong bias here about the issues you call into question.

i was more concerned about derailing your thread but perhaps my report will stand as proof, one way or the other..........

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OFF-TOPIC TRIP REPORT

i'll just be honest and explain things as i remember them. my one major doubt is that i had been reading T.McKenna between this trip and my last, and my trip was like a corroboration of everything he was saying over the years. the cosmic other, the cosmic lover, alien contact and machine elves. not like i would have imagined it, but it all fit the description.

the setting was an enormous beach camping area on a long weekend, hundreds upon hundreds of campsites spread among the casuarinas, and i was horribly sick with phlegm. drank 2.5 g of what may have been quite a strong cube dust placed directly in hot water after sunset. this was a reduction of previous doses with shocking results, which i attribute to my receptiveness and the greatness of mushrooms. during onset i could notice lots of phosphorus in the waves at the beach, including one large, persistent lump of it, although i walked straight into a fence shortly after and got flung back into the sand. my fellow campers went to sleep and due to the monumental likelihood of getting lost, i just lay down on a noisy tarp for most the trip, conscious of the noise i was making rolling around and hacking up lung-oysters.

my chronology will fail me here, i'll just describe the key things in three paragraphs, each one more life-changing than the last

1 - i was never fully submerged in the experience, always able to 'pull out' if it got too much for me, probably just by opening my eyes, which tells me i wasn't on a huge dose, i was just having a huge experience. this refuge allowed me to explore more comfortably. i felt that i could definitely 'bring things back' as i experienced them, and i have, but even at the time, trying to define things caused a relapse of my understanding.. explanatory sentences degraded in mere seconds. at it's most terrible, i thought that sharing this experience is probably not the right thing to do, but it is watered down now anyway and i want to.

2 - eyes closed, i observed the string-like nature of the hallucinations, and the manner in which the strings moved. i likened them to DNA in action. i had a strong feeling of work being done, things be accomplished, and that the ones 'building' this thing may not even know what they are building, they just keep trying until they hopefully get it right. so, the hallucinations were DNA, but then they were machine elves, morphing machine hallucinations. i saw transforming machines, very strange machines which would be impossible in our reality. they were always moving in inextricable ways, always changing.. to what end? to paraphrase mckenna they said 'do as we do', and following that instruction was like trying to hallucinate. the machines changed and i let them, submerging myself in the hallucinations. i saw it as some kind of work, culminating in the eschaton, 2012, and i believed this without any doubt.

3 - this next paragraph was intermixed with the previous, but has different themes. i was very sick, but not concerned.. on the whole i was UNCONCERNED about my physical welfare, letting my sinuses accumulate large deposits of phlegm for 15 minutes before doing anything about it. i even thought that this was allowing one of my brains to shut down, empowering my trip, and it may have (i've since 'confirmed' this brain-switching to be an effect of ). terrible hallucinations loomed before me, cutting my self to shreds, but to be precise i LET THEM cut me down, i was already quite convinced of my insignificance compared to this mighty other. what the other then revealed, through hallucinations, was the ********* nature of the universe. i don't know the word, but like a fractal huge contrivances rose from tiny beginnings. eyes and ears and hands and mouths were displayed on the ends of very spindly limbs, connecting to a consciousness itself very spindly, connected to reality by spindly means. these spindly contrivances were being ever reduced, even the terrifying other was like this (although it was demonstrating a point....). this all confirmed the truth of the non-state i was flowing with. i'm not sure what to make of this but i fleetingly saw one thing that was not reduced, although things did reduce into it, i think it was egg-like, and it made me think of kundalini. ? . although this other had been verbally offerering and threatening to kill and destroy me, i realised it's motivation was some form of pure compassion. the whole time it felt alien to me, as in, embodying that which i do not. i thought the other to be feminine somehow. having had hours of intermittent communication, i attempted to open up true contact, by opening my heart to it. what followed was momentary and inexplicable, and topped everything else. i can only describe it as a pulsing of the heart, completely foreign in my experience... and it has been foreign and unavailable ever since, but if you ask me where it's all "at" i will say 'heart'.

the sun came up, i was first on the beach among thousands of campers, walked for miles in soft sand and then back again, my self now fully in control. when asked how it was i just said 'terrifying'.

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[ThunderIdeal]

wow i just found this picture

warning it's kind of sexual

http://spectraleyes.com/gallery/artworx/kali_ma

read the text it's exactly like my number 3 paragraph

[Μορφέας]

wow nice find Thunder

[Ace]

Text from the link:

Vishvamata

Description : 11x17" mixed media - 2004 Kali is a Hindu Goddess who represents the dissolution of time-space into its timeless origin. She sits upon the corpse of Shiva, who embodies the indestructible ground of awareness. Their union is the non-dual nature of Reality.

This image of Kali comes from the tantric school of Shaivite Yoga, around the 14th century, where She is Vishvamata, the Great Cosmic Mother. In tantric cosmology, the two primary principles of reality are Shiva and Shakti. Shiva is the passive male principle of awareness, and Shakti is the active female principle of energy and matter. Kali is the aspect of Shakti that destroys creation to reveal the eternal nature of things. On an individual level, She removes the obstacles that keep us from realizing our true nature. Thus, She is viewed as both terrible, for destroying what we cling to, and compassionate, for releasing us from illusion.

Her scimitar represents the wisdom to discriminate reality from illusion, severing the mind that is attached to the ego-body, which she holds as a demon head. Her garland of skulls is symbolic of the countless beings she has liberated from attachments to form. Her right hand raised is the gesture of fearlessness, and her right hand lowered is the granting of boons. Her necklace of heads and blood-drenched tongue show how the consequences of all actions are absolved and consumed in the wisdom of eternal life. She is the color of midnight to symbolize the empty nature of all appearances.

Shiva lies beneath her in a state of suspended awareness, with a moon to signify his inward composure. He has transcended the passions, represented by the cobras around him.

[mu!]

Maybe the "behind the doors" is the realisation of breaking free from question-answer dualism that seems to take up so much of people's time and energy. I think it may be a great cosmic joke to "break through" these doors and find that you actually ended up in the same place

[No_One]

My ramble;

Leary postulates that our consciousness has 8 different modes of operation, each mode giving us access to the varied information contained within different segments of reality.

Offering attention to certain parts of reality forces our minds to process it and thus attempt to understand it.

If you went on a holiday that included 8 different activities you could do and you only did 1 then I reckon you'd regret it when you got home. You could have experienced 8 experiences instead you chose to only do 1 - Regrets!.

Your spirit, soul, being, whatever was instigated when your parents conceived you, consider this the beginning of your holiday here as you, you have a limited time as you and your objective, assuming you want to reach your potential, is to be the best you you can be.

What is it your you needs to do to be the best it can be? Are you sure? What if your model of reality isn't correct, what if there's something important your missing that will stop you being the you you need to be or could be?

Tieing this back in with Leary's theory, reality has a shitload of information contained within it, most people study this information from one perspective i.e. the standard awake state - this is fine for some, others however are not satisfied with forming an oppinion based on just one perspective - that's where psychedelics and drugs in general come into it. In Leary's theory you can get access to an example of the information contained within 8 other filing cabinets if you dose with certain substances, knowledge is power so who wouldn't want to do a little extra light reading?

The better understanding of reality you have the better you can use it to do whatever it is you want to do.

Reality is like a car sitting on the lot, before you buy into it you should check it out from as many angles as you can - psychedelics provide instant access to the various angles. Constantly observing your model of reality through psychedelics and meditation is a good way to assess if it's the right vehicle to be driving you. Keep in mind you don't have to keep what you buy for life - constantly trade in and up so what you buy into is always right for you i.e. satisfies your needs.

Hope you get my drift.

[ThunderIdeal]

convincing perspective