Two questions yet again

[ENtiTY]

Never tried steaming jars, I got a PC straight up to save me the worry. However I had a similar problem with jars that were to tall to stand up in the PC so I had to lay them down. I got round this by increasing the distance between the water level and the foil.

There are two ways you can approach this problem. The first is to raise the jars to increase the distance between the foil and the water. Maybe sit the jars on an inverted steamer basket or something similar. This way you can add enough water to last the duration of the sterilisation and increase the distance between the water and the foil. The second option is to drop the water level to a distance far enough away from the foil so that no water is forced into the glasses. The problem with this approach is that you probably won't have enough water to last the process. Topping up with more boiling water periodically is the solution. The second option is more labour intensive but doable.

Hope this helps.

Get a PC

[immanuel]

Haha, yeah I really need a PC. So the jars I just put in are no good? The foil is getting pushed up but I can't see any water pooling in the actual jars? Do I just have throw the mix out and start over anyway? I'll find something to stack them on top of too keep them out of the water.

Just looking on eBay at PC's. There's some old ones which are cheap, around 10-20 bucks (not including postage). As long as they've still got their seal are they okay?

Wow just found this one: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VINTAGE-PRESTIGE-PR...1QQcmdZViewItem

15 bucks and located only a 10 minute drive away from where I live . What do you think of that one?

Can't wait to start growing my legal edibles.

Edited May 15, 2007 by mardybum

[ENtiTY]

The glasses should be fine if there is noting soggy looking in there. The foil being bubbled on top is normal, its just from the expansion of air inside the glass.

As for the PC, not sure. Things to look for are volume and dimentions. You want at least a 6 litre PC roughly. You want one tall enough to fit a 550ml Doritos jar as if you stick with the hobby you will eventually move to grain. I recently bought another PC for this reason. Its a Presige like the one you linked to but mine is a high dome version and it fits 4 550ml jars perfect! If the dimentions and volume isn't listed then message seller and ask for them.

Have a look at this one

[immanuel]

Wow very nice. Am I going to want to save up and buy one like that? Or are the cheap old ones just as good as long as they fit the dimsensions?

Damn it. The jars got flooded again I think my first jar was OK, becuase it was so tall the foil stayed above the water. I'll give it one last try by using something to stand them on, otherwise i'll have to get myself a PC.

Edited April 25, 2007 by mardybum

[immanuel]

ok only one jar flooded. hows this one look, is it alright to innoculate?

theres no water pooled at the bottom, just seems to be a little condensation around the glass, so im assuming its OK?

also, what if, after i had made an aliminium foil lid on my jar, i made a lid from the bottom of the jar, to stop water speeping up through the crack? so like, essentially the whole thing would become wrapped in foil? lids on both sides.

the PC i was looking at which is in my area is around 20cm deep, and hold 4 litres. is that deep enough for a dorito's jar?

Edited April 25, 2007 by mardybum

[ENtiTY]

The older ones tend to be a better choice IMO. From what I have found they run at a higher pressure than the newer ones as far as cooking PC's are concerned. $30 for a 8L PC is cheap as dirt, if you find one cheaper snap it up!

A 550ml Doritos jar is about 16cm high so the PC needs to able to fit this with the lid on. PC's come in heaps of different dimentions so I can't really give you a specific set of dimentions without telling you to buy a specific PC. Keep an eye out for PC's in the 5-6L range that are at least 25cm tall. Measurements seem to be taken from the outside so you will loose a couple of cm's to the thickness of the base and lid. Use that as a rough guide and it should get you in the ball park.

As for the glasses, they look about right. Maybe still a lil on the moist side but only just. Don't stress about it they will be fine

What you suggest may work ok. Try it next time you do up some glasses and see. Another thing that may help is trimming or rolling the foil up higher on the glasses so it doesn't hang down so low. Looks like the water could be funneling up between the foil and the glass. Shorten it and I think that will help a lot.

Its all about fun so remember to have a bit

[user1]

dude! the water above foil level? you need an inch of water, that's it (as long as ur pot is big enough). the steam will billow out the foil tops every now n then, but no significant excess water should get in. no small saucepans

EDIT: that glass in the picture doesn't look flooded, looks ok to let sit for a while

Edited April 25, 2007 by user1

[immanuel]

alright thanks guys. i did a test run with some sand and rolled the foil up from the bottom and it worked perfectly. i put a little more than an inch of water in, and just set it on a low boil, and after about one hour there was around 2or3cm of water left, i did the same with my cakes but added a little more water and left them for 1 hour and 30 mins. theres a PC in my local area for 15 bucks its only 4 litre though. the lady told me it was 18cm deep, not including the lid and 25cm wide. i might grab it cause for only 15 bucks itll serve as a good alternative at the moment.

[immanuel]

i got a 150L plastic box for my fruiting chamber for 20 bucks. it was the biggest there, so better safe than sorry.

im planning on boiling perlite in a pot first, then letting it cool, straining the water off, putting an inch in the bottom of the container and putting my cakes ontop. from there should I just fan the air out twice a day? do i leave the lid on? do I want to spray it with mist occasionly, how can i tell if it's too dry and needs a spray? should I drill holes into the box? how much light do i need to give it every 24 hours, indirect sunlight or direct? can I just rig up a light in my closet and turn it on for however long during the day so i dont have to keep them outside?

sorry i have alot of questions, thanks for any help.

Edited April 29, 2007 by mardybum

[ENtiTY]

i got a 150L plastic box for my fruiting chamber for 20 bucks. it was the biggest there, so better safe than sorry.

im planning on boiling perlite in a pot first, then letting it cool, straining the water off, putting an inch in the bottom of the container and putting my cakes ontop. from there should I just fan the air out twice a day? do i leave the lid on? do I want to spray it with mist occasionly, how can i tell if it's too dry and needs a spray? should I drill holes into the box? how much light do i need to give it every 24 hours, indirect sunlight or direct? can I just rig up a light in my closet and turn it on for however long during the day so i dont have to keep them outside?

sorry i have alot of questions, thanks for any help.

You don't need to boil the perlite, just put some peroxide in the water you add. An inch of perlite and 1/2 inch of water in the bottom of the FC should be fine. Fanning really depends on how quickly the CO2 builds up. The more mushies the quicker the build up. Mourning and night is generally enough but you can also do it whenever you remember to in between also if you like.

Mist when you can't see condensation on the walls and lid of the FC. Don't bother drilling holes, it'll just make it harder for you to maintain high humidity.

Placing in a bright room is enough light. Don't place in direct sun outside or you'll cook everything. Keep it indoors where it is a bit warmer, getting to cold outside now. You can use a light in a closet if you like, just make sure that heat doesn't build up. 12 hours on, 12 hours off or you can leave it on all the time if you can maintain at temp of around 25C and no higher. You don't want to go any higher than 25, even down to 20 is ok but fruiting will be slower.

[immanuel]

My legal edibles are growing nicely.

As you may or may not be able to see (kind of hard with the bad lighting) SWIMs cake is white almost everywhere, except for the uncollonised patch in the first picture. Would this be the time to turn the jar upside down or pump it or something similar? Or should he just leave it until it (hopefully) starts pinning. If it becomes fully white all over, and there are no pins for a week after, should he just birth it anyway?

- Thankfully the myc out-competed that contamination that SWIM posted a while back :D

Edited May 15, 2007 by mardybum

[ENtiTY]

The pic at the bottom looks like its ready to pump and invert. SWIM has after greater experimentation found that a cakes with higher levels of water are more likely to pin when pumped. Some just don't pin after pumping and need to be dunked to give it a shove in the right direction. Your cakes are nice and wet so should pin nicely when pumped. Birth after a week if no pins form.

Gluck

[immanuel]

The pic at the bottom looks like its ready to pump and invert. SWIM has after greater experimentation found that a cakes with higher levels of water are more likely to pin when pumped. Some just don't pin after pumping and need to be dunked to give it a shove in the right direction. Your cakes are nice and wet so should pin nicely when pumped. Birth after a week if no pins form.

Gluck

That picture I showed which SWIM gave to me is all just one cake, SWIM just rotated it a bit every photo. Did you know that, or did you think each picture was a different cake? Anyways, assuming you knew each picture was the same cake, even though in that first picture there's a large portion which hasn't collonised, it's still ok to pump and invert? Knowing the pictures are all of one cake, if you still think it's OK to pump, i'll go and do it right now (or when you reply).

Edited May 15, 2007 by mardybum

[ENtiTY]

If those pics are of all 1 cake then no don't pump it. Just invert. By invert I mean turn the jar so it is sitting on the foil and put it back into a dark warm place to finish colonising. If you pump now you will get a semi colonised cake with heaps of pins.

[immanuel]

haha, alright. so when the whole jars looking like that bottom picture- i'l tell SWIM tol pump it. he's got 3 others jars going but they've only just started to collonise. thanks again

Edited May 15, 2007 by mardybum

[immanuel]

This last bit of the collonisation is going really slow. It's been a week and the jars pretty much remained the same, with that one little patch left. SWIM said he had it turned upside down for 2-3 days now, is there anything else he can do to speed it up or does he just have to sit and wait.

Btw, I picked up that PC for my legal edibles, it works great, fits 5 jars on the bottom and has about another jar of room above them. I just did a test drive with sand and did the water drop test, everything worked I'm sterilizing another jar right now.

Edited May 15, 2007 by mardybum

[immanuel]

Here's a copy of an email I received from SWIM.

Some more questions, don't mean to hijaak this thread, but i'd rather ask here than make another thread and clog the forum.

This is the jar I sterilized in my PC last night, since all my jars have been too moist, and since too dry is better than too moist, I strained of ALL the excess water before adding BRF and putting into the cup. Does this look about the right water content?

My first contaminated jar What do I need to do, I removed it straightaway, now do I just empty the contents into the bin and clean the jar (being sure to thoroughly sterilize) and it will be OK to re-use?

I've got four jars going now (apart from the contam), one is the tall one which is almost fully collonised, two others which are short fat cups which are collonising quite fast, i'm thinking one of them might even get birthed before the tall glass, because it is moving very fast and around 70% collonised And then the last one is the *dryer* one above, which I only innoculated last night.

This jar (tall one) is starting to collonise over that last little spot which was left, in tha last few days its collonised more since the photo in my previous post, my guess is it'd be around 95% collonised, would it be a good time to pump it, because I read you should pump it before it's fully collonised, or should I just wait until that little spot is all white then pump it? I;m not sure what to do, i'm reading contradictory sources :S

As you can see this jar has white all over except for that one spot left in the last photo. The line where the tin foil ends is where the dry verm begins in the jar.

Edited May 15, 2007 by mardybum

[ENtiTY]

That glass looks perfect

As for the contam, wear a mask, get a shopping bag, pull the foil off the glass tap the contaminated cake out into the bag. Tie the bag closed and dump in the bin. Rinse the jar out then wash in in soapy water. Good as new!

As for pumping the glass, 95% is a rough estimate according to a glass that is colonising at the normal rate. When you pump the cake depends up on the rate of colonisation. Pump to early and the cake will pin before colonisation is complete. If you don't think you can judge how long it will take, then it is better to wait untill it is 99% completed. Better to pump it late than early.

If your cakes are nice and moist then pumping them will induce them to pin nicely. If they are noticably dry then they either won't pin or will take ages and only throw 1 or 2 pins. In the case where they are to dry, dunk for 12hrs then birth in the FC. Because the glass was a little over moist at the start I would say that it should respond well to pumping.

Gluck

[Hyphal]

What is pumping?

[ENtiTY]

Pumping is semi birthing the cake. Basically removing the cake from the glass/jar and then putting it back in. Exposing the cake to fresh air to induce it to pin.

[Hyphal]

Thanks for clearing that up for me man!

[immanuel]

This is the setup SWIMs planning on using in his cupboard. He took a few pics so you could see if this will be enough light for the mushrooms. This picture is just to show exactly how he is planning on setting it up in his cupboard, is this an OK place to put the light, is the inside of the FC getting enough light?

And here's to show how transaculent the lid is, will this be OK to use or should he get something more transaculent and place the light elsewhere?

[ENtiTY]

Yeah looks ok. SWIM had some plastic lunch boxes that she was using as the case tray. They were semi-opaque, much less translucent than that lid and SWIM had shrooms pinning up the sides and even underneath near the sides. Thad lid will be fine. Because the sides of the FC are clear more light will enter from there and you shrooms will prolly grow out sideways from the cakes instead of up. No biggie if you give the cakes plenty of room.

One thing I will mention is that light doesn't look very energy efficient. Your going to chew a head of juice keeping that thing on for 12 or how ever many hours you plan to give that mushies light. Better off with a fluro. Also have you considered the fire hazzard that that type of light will be couped up in a cupboard? The brightness of the light looks like an energy saving globe but they still generate a shit load more heat than a fluro.

Some thing to think about.

[Hyphal]

Yeah looks ok. SWIM had some plastic lunch boxes that she was using as the case tray. They were semi-opaque, much less translucent than that lid and SWIM had shrooms pinning up the sides and even underneath near the sides. Thad lid will be fine. Because the sides of the FC are clear more light will enter from there and you shrooms will prolly grow out sideways from the cakes instead of up. No biggie if you give the cakes plenty of room.

One thing I will mention is that light doesn't look very energy efficient. Your going to chew a head of juice keeping that thing on for 12 or how ever many hours you plan to give that mushies light. Better off with a fluro. Also have you considered the fire hazzard that that type of light will be couped up in a cupboard? The brightness of the light looks like an energy saving globe but they still generate a shit load more heat than a fluro.

Some thing to think about.

An energy saving globe IS a fluro Harry.

[immanuel]

Yeah, I thought it was a fluro as the light is white without any yellow, just in the pictre SWIM took his camera makes it looks yellow, and it's an energy saving globe he picked up from the shops when they were handing them out free.

Can he cover the sides of the box so they are not transaculent to make the shrooms grow up? If a proper fluro bulb is going to burn less energy, he can just grab a fluro one from BI-LO or woolworths for a few bucks?

Edited May 15, 2007 by mardybum