Coschi Posted March 21, 2007 Once cakes are fully colonized, they are put into standard room temperature and given natural light... how much light is too much? Would right next to a sunny side window be too much light? What is the repercussion of too much light? verm/peat casing, 1/2" on bottom, 3" cakes, 3/4" casing on top... both of the casing layers must be sterilized before use? Should they be prepared and sterilized in the same was as the PF style substrate is? (mix, add water to right amount, PC for 45 mins, use..) ? Also if perlite humidity tub is to be used for fruiting should sterilized water be used for the perlite? How susceptible to contams is the process at this stage? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ENtiTY Posted March 21, 2007 Assuming its the mushie species I'm thinkin of fruiting temp is about 10 deg C lower than spawning temp, which puts it at about 19 deg C. Difuse light is ideal I think. To much light may push up the temp maybe and dry out the cake/case. Yep casing must be sterilised, at least 1 hour in a PC is best. Hydrate mix and PC. No need to use sterilised water, just add some peroxide to the water, will do the same thing. Once colonised, cakes are fairly resestant to contam. I assume the same is true for cased spawn. You should still be as clean as possible to reduce risk as much as possible and you don't really want to many nasties getting in there if you want to do some sterile prints or take cultures from the best of the best. Gluck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coschi Posted March 21, 2007 Ok... perhaps currently they are getting too much light.. one day shouldn't matter? Good advice things! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted March 21, 2007 I wouldnt bother PCing the casing mix - simply nuking for a short while will be sufficient. I would estimate about 5mins to be ideal And H2O2 isnt neccessary, but can be rather useful in deterring nasties. As for the light, as Hazza said - you want about as much as can be found in an average room with an open window - bright artificial light isnt necessary for a couple mushies. But I think the heat is what you need to avoid - too much light can = heat. Heat = dry cakes and no/little fruit - comprende`? your tek sounds fine otherwise cheif hope that helps big fella Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coschi Posted March 21, 2007 Cheers ace, so if microwaving the casing (is this pasturising rather than sterilising?), basically same as before make the mix wet, perhaps put in a large bowl cover with glad wrap put a few holes and nuke for ... 10 minutes? SO FUCKING EXCITED !!!!!!! WOO !!!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted March 21, 2007 Thats it man - really a piece of piss (theoretically, of course ). Good luck with your mates grow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted March 21, 2007 Cheers ace, so if microwaving the casing (is this pasturising rather than sterilising?), basically same as before make the mix wet, perhaps put in a large bowl cover with glad wrap put a few holes and nuke for ... 10 minutes? Like I said last time you asked this question: "Ideally, you should sterilize the casing mix in a pressure cooker, especially if peat is involved. I just used straight verm for my casing, and I zapped it in the microwave with no probs." Yeah 10min sounds fine, maybe too much depending on how much casing mix you have... and this would not really be pasteurization, no. BTW, with regards to h202, I probably went overboard with it with my first attempt, but I think it may have contributed to the fact that I had no contams at the birthing stage... well worth it IMO, just so you don't get discouraged on your first try. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coschi Posted March 21, 2007 Thanks Chilli Yep I tend to ask similar / same questions again and again, just want to make sure i've got it right, being 'correctly' informed is key really to ever succeeding in this, not to mention making your own mistakes but if that can be avoided then i'd rather go with that option.. hey if you notice my questions do differ a little Alright pc it is What ratio of h2o to h2o2 would you use? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted March 21, 2007 I think only a few drops (mLs) of peroxide are needed, but I have not used this method, so maybe Chilli could enlighten us Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ENtiTY Posted March 21, 2007 Where do you want to add the H2O2? If its in the fruiting chamber it doesn't really matter just splash some in the water mix and add to the perlite, maybe 10ml per liter of water. If it is in the casing mix then remember peroxide is decomosed with heat so it will have to be after PCing. Not sure on how much to add though. To much will retard the myc growth through the casing. I'm not actually sure if its even worth putting it in the casing mix as it would react with the organics and disipate rather fast I would think. I don't think I would add it to the casing if I were to do it. I'd just PC and focus on keeping a clean fruiting chamber. Like I said once myc has its hooks into a substrate the risk of contam reduces a lot. So case, incubate again and patch if necessary then once the myc has grown through nicely, fruit ! Mistakes are part of learning so don't be discouraged if you make a few. You'll know what not to do next time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted March 21, 2007 (edited) Yeah Sphinx, I know what you mean, I do the same thing. RE: h202, I don't think much is needed, but the thing is I used quite a lot the first time, because I just wanted to make sure I got some shrooms. A few mL to every 500mL of 3% peroxide should be okay, but I didnt really measure, I just liberally splashed it in the water... Still got heaps of shrooms, and although I never ended up eating any of them, my bro says they were good. *edit* RE: Harry, I too about the need or wisdom of using h202 in the casing mix, I only used it in the water for the perlite in the fruiting chamber. I also had a slightly stronger mix on hand in a spraygun, but I think the only time I used it was on the exposed surface of a couple of partially uncolonized cakes I chopped. Edited March 21, 2007 by Chilli Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
occidentalis Posted March 21, 2007 I disagree that casing materials need to be sterlised or even pasteurised. Just wet it and stick it on top. I also disagree with Harry that 19°c is optimum fruiting temperature. Fruiting will be fairly slow at that temp. Around 25° is best reportedly although temps of 35°C have been observed to have little negative effect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hyphal Posted March 21, 2007 I disagree that casing materials need to be sterlised or even pasteurised. Just wet it and stick it on top.I also disagree with Harry that 19°c is optimum fruiting temperature. Fruiting will be fairly slow at that temp. Around 25° is best reportedly although temps of 35°C have been observed to have little negative effect. Definitely 25C is ideal, and warmer wont hurt either - but, the warmer you go, the more chance you have of contamination and mutated fruits. I would STRONGLY advise against adding any H2O2 to any casing layer, and as creach said - although you can quite easily get away without sterilising a casing layer - I'd still recommend doing it at all times anyway. The easiest way to do it is go to Coles and get a few 'oven bags' from the glad wrap/foil section (the coles brand ones are the cheapest, you get twice as many in the box as the Glad Brand and you also get a few little twist ties and rubber bands in the box). Get your casing mix to very slightly above field capacity (to allow for a little loss through evaporation), stuff it into your oven bags and tie them off with one of the metal twist ties. Bung the bag in the oven for an hour at 110C then let it cool and you viola. Its stores well too, what you dont use, simply leave in the bag, tie back up, wrap in a shopping bag and bung in the bottom of the fridge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted March 21, 2007 My sentence above was supposed to read "I too *have doubts* about adding..." Creach, why do you disagree with sterilizing the casing layer? It seems like bad advice for a first attempt, especially when it can be done so easily. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
occidentalis Posted March 21, 2007 Creach, why do you disagree with sterilizing the casing layer? It seems like bad advice for a first attempt, especially when it can be done so easily. Firstly, peat and vermiculite are likely to be nearly sterile to start with. Secondly, as long as your bulk substrate is well colonised, there is very littly chance of any contamination occuring, even if you use a casing material that's not as clean as peat/verm. You're right, mabye a first timer should just do it to remove any concern, but even then I don't think it's necessary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coschi Posted March 21, 2007 Apparently it's done, have to wait and see what happens 900mL verm, 900 peat, about a litre of water IPA used to keep steps sterile Microwaved with glad wrap cover, seemed pretty wet still but not dripping on an inch of perlite with a about 1.5 litres not enough cakes to cover the full surface area of the casing, about an inch free on all sides anyway, half an inch of casing on the bottom, about 1.5" cakes with gaps filled, another half inch of casing covering top and sides now in a clear tub lid on but not closed next to a sunny window At least this is what i heard See what happens! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hyphal Posted March 21, 2007 See what happens! Sounds good, drop back with the results (you know how much people love pics - if you can get them... ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ENtiTY Posted March 21, 2007 Aren't you supposed to incubate in darkness after casing until myc starts to show through the casing then expose to light? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coschi Posted March 21, 2007 Not from what i've heard , will definitely post pics when i receive them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted March 21, 2007 Aren't you supposed to incubate in darkness after casing until myc starts to show through the casing then expose to light? Some people do this, but I don't see the point as the casing essentially keeps the mycelium in the dark anyway... I just chucked mine in the fruiting chamber with my cakes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ENtiTY Posted March 21, 2007 It does seem like a waste of time. Find out soon enough I suppose Gluck Sphinx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coschi Posted March 22, 2007 Here's a few pics my mate overseas sent They show the position where the fruiting chamber is sitting and the casing mix sitting on a bed of perlite Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted March 22, 2007 Looks very promising Sphinx - Best of luck with the venture! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coschi Posted March 22, 2007 Cheers guys i'll pass the well wishes onto my friend Share this post Link to post Share on other sites