the hitchhiker's guide to tolerance, addiction, alcohol, opiates, cannabis

[gomaos]

(just changed the title to make it look less serious)

There's been a lot of talk about this in other subforums, and I'd like to write some sort of mini-essay about it.

Since I have always been a tea-totaller, this is about my friend of a friend, in short FOAF:

FOAF: "Approx 4 years ago, I stopped drinking alcohol because it was getting me very depressed and had many other bad side-effects. Kratom tea made from kratom Leaves was very helpful with this. At the time kratom was still legal in Oz.

I then wrote a long long anti-alcohol thread, which is to be found somewhere here in the creativity forum, that's if it hasn't been moderated away, like many of my posts which have simply disappeared.

In fact the thread turned out so long because so many people replied to it.

I was quite happy not drinking alcohol anymore.

But I do admit I am a cannabis-lover, have been since I was 18, and this herb has hardly ever caused me any problems (other than to my lungs, which was resolved by stopping to smoke ANYTHING about 1 year ago) other than craving when it's not available.

At this point, I have to correct the writer William Burroughs who wrote in his novel "junky":

"Weed" is totally non-addictive and does not cause any craving etc etc..."

Wrong there, Bill...

I have also "fooled around" or "played with" opiates.

Originally during my teens, twenties, and thirties, I was a staunch opiate-hater and "looked down" on people who, for example, injected heroin.

In 1977-79, I lived in Berlin, and virtually ALL of "our" (gf and me living together) friends and aquaintances were shooting up heroin.

Since I had researched the subject of opiates and heroin especially by reading books of T. Leary and william Burroughs, I knew exactly what to expect, and decided against it.

Deciding for it would have been consciously going out and getting a life-threatening, permanent disease, in short, it would have been stupidity.

But I couldn't escape watching the lives of those who were using it falling apart.

So many people I used to know during those days are dead now, victims of heroin and the life that comes with it.

However, in my late 40s, nearing the age of 50, I had become bored with the government-dictated lifestyle and decided that now, carefully, I would start to research opiates.

I had brief encounters with H in the late 90s, afew times in Thailand, and in germany, smoked and snorted only, never injected.

As far as remember, only the first 2 times were very good.

Later I found some wild poppies growing in a park nearby, and started to make some poppy-cooks.

6-8 fairly large Pods would entertain me beautifully every night.

My mind drifted into dark goth lands of poppy lust, it was like diving into an ocean of beautiful satisfying strangeness, so ver very appealing...

The next morning I would remember nothing of what happened during my poppy-dreams, all I remembered it was very very beautiful and I wanted to do it again.

After 2 seasons of this a tolerance had built up, and the dark lustful goth-poppyland was never seen again.

Now poppy-cooks and poppy-washes were mostly boring and unsatisfactory.

It has to be noted however, that no addiction like for example morphine- or H-addiction, had built up, and it was quite easy to give the poppies a miss.

This is still true today.

Which brings me to my first question:

Is the huge addiction which morphine and h-users so obviously suffer, mainly caused by the habit of injecting?

I am tempted to assume this.

I do however acknowledge that for example, in Thailand or Laos, there are many many people who are addicted to smoking opium daily and continuously, up to 100 smokes per day.

But we are not talking about smoking either, just about oral administration.

Back to my case:

A few months ago, there was (and still is) a cannabis shortage caused by police enforcement of stupid laws. One day, a friend came around and offered some "cannabis extracted into alcohol".

I said "gimme gimme gimme" totally ignoring that about a shot-glass of vodka was involved.

Now I could have just evaporated the alcohol but what the hell down the hatch with it.

Strangely enough, that vodka tasted really good.

I can't even remember if I got any effects of the cannabis-extract.

About 1-2 weeks later I suddenly felt the need to walk into a bottleshop and buy a bottle of Jim beam.

Went home, drank it, smashed, lay down passed out for an hour or so, headache etc later on.

i was very shocked by this the next day and thought: "Oh no, not again..."

I then had the idea to make poppy washes with champagne. Done and done. It's

pretty effective, doesn't even taste bad, and the raw opium takes away the side effects of the alc, i.e. hang-overs etc.

Since I had a big bag of poppy seeds, I did a poppy-wash whenever I bought alc, about 2-3 times a week, mostly using champagne and/or wine.

About 2 weeks ago, I had another bottle of jim beam, and hardly could get it down, because it tasted awful.

Which was very strange, because Jim beam used to be my favourite bourbon years ago.

Now it tasted so bad i could hardly get it down.

1 week ago,

I did a champagne-poppy-wash with a couple of friends, but this time it was different.

For about 6 hours I had a feeling as if I had a brick in my stomach, a feeling that just wouldn't go away (for 6 hrs). As I found out later, this is a typical reaction for morphine and h-addicts.

W. Burroughs also mentions exactly the same thing: "When you're on junk, you can't drink. Your stomach just will go into cramps for hours."

Since then, I don't desire Alc anymore. I don't even like the taste of a nice champagne without poppy-wash in it anymore.

But what about opiate-addiction?

presently I have been totally opiate-free for 5 days, not even allowing myself painkillers with codeine.

At the 3rd night, I experienced a lot of insomnia.

Night 4 and 5, drank a kratom tea (which was given to me thanks a lot)and slept very well.

Other than that, no bad effects, other then some shakiness of the hand when trying to draw a straight line on paper. Unable to do so...."

FOAF out.

Edited February 2, 2007 by gomaos

[psilosophical]

From SWIM's experience, the third day is the peak of the withdrawals, and SWIM has experienced insomnia for up to a week after indulging last. SWIM thinks the worst part of opiate withdrawals is being extremely drained, lethargic, tired yet unable to sleep. Makes any user very unmotivated to get out and work, or function doing whatever they have to do.

SWIM says the best thing you can do is stay away from that tea, although he is not experienced with opium he knows opiates just get harder and harder as you go along, as I am sure you understand.

[AndyAmine.]

Thats no good my friend, it didnt click when I first read the poppy champaigne thread, your friend must have been going through some really hard times lately, he should have contacted his mates to talk about it ;)

I can certainly identify with your friends situation, the best thing to do is really stick with it, the longer he stays off the better he will start to feel and the more he will start to appreciate the strength involved in what he has jst done and that this strength can be applied in so many different ways/places. your friend deserve a good pat on the back.. good on ya mate. big hugs...

Now hopefuly he can kick this opiate thing relativly quickly and the dislike of alcohol will remain killing 2 birds with one stone.

I find one of the most usful things to say to ones self or to others, is to appreciate how long it has been since last using and what it will be like to have start all over again, everytime one goes back it starts all over again, all that time is wasted...

At the moment your friend can say it has been 5 whole days and nights since he last used some opiates (or alcohol for that matter) and thats a powerful and strong thing that has been done and he should find strength in that, but imagine how bad it will feel to have to say, no its only been 1hr since I last used and I have all the crap ahead of me again.

Edited February 2, 2007 by AndyAmine.

[gomaos]

Thats no good my friend, it didnt click when I first read the poppy champaigne thread, your friend must have been going through some really hard times lately, he should have contacted his mates to talk about it ;)

hey, it wasn't really that bad. Maybe i made it sounds to dramatical.

No heavy withdrawals were experienced at any time, just minor discomforts.

I started this thread to try and research interactions of various addictions, i.e. junk working against alc addiction, kratom helping against opiate withdrawals, and most likely a decent dose of cannabis will help against any withdrawals at all.

Maybe I got it off on the wrong foot.

The time of my birthday nears, and that's mostly the most confusing time of the year for me.

About a year ago this horrible "hanged girl thread" happened.

I have problems expressing myself. Always.

edit: just talked to friend. he said he didn't have a bad time at all lately, has been quite creative etc.

researching tolerance and addiction to various things is some sort of hobby.

without doing those things his evenings would be too boring.

Tv sucks.

Edited February 2, 2007 by gomaos

[Awaken]

Gomaos,

Thank you for being so open and sharing your heart with us............You have no problem with expression at all, dont beat your self up.........

cheers

Awaken

[nabraxas]

^^totally agree. Thanks Gom.

[mescalito]

I see where you are coming from Gom, but I don't think there are any real "magic" cures for these strong addictions except the advice Andy provided earlier.It's all about how we think about our situation...that's the only catalyst for personal change.

I also see where you stand with kratom too, but unfortunately I've never had any experience with this one thanks to the TGA...sounded like a gold-mine too(no wonder it was scheduled )

Short-acting Benzo withdrawals are reportedly(and anecdotally)worse than those associated with opiates according to research studies on detoxing patients.

The whole system needs to be reassessed and banning living plants is just plain crazy.

e.g. I can drop into my doc and pick up a free script for Xanax,pay about 4 bucks for 50 2mg tabs with 2 rpts...2 years after starting on them and no questions asked.This is mis-management IMO as they are only supposed to be used for 6-8 weeks maximum!

The 1st doses started at .125mg twice a day and because of tollerance and the short acting nature, 1.250mg four times a day is now my daily dose ...and that's just to fight off the 4-6hrly withdrawal symptoms not the disorder!!

My newly discovered "cure-all" aid is daily meditation aimed at mindfullness,which I'm finding quite profound.I never really truly believed that I might be able to acheive these non-thinking states so quickly and literally no effort is required but 20 mins sitting on your ass!!...if we have receptors, then we can endogenously produce these substances.

If it's pain relief you need, then see a good acupuncturist,if that doesn't work, then find a better one.I could hardly drive home after my last visit, as the doc stimulated my valium points and I felt quite 'stoned' upon leaving his practice...actually I drove at 80km/h for a 1/2 an hour trip home in a 100k Zone

As for opiates,I won't take anything that stops me from shitting...you know the saying

[gomaos]

I see where you are coming from Gom, but I don't think there are any real "magic" cures for these strong addictions except the advice Andy provided earlier.It's all about how we think about our situation...that's the only catalyst for personal change.

exactly.

It depends how one looks at it.

I want to be able to write about these things and give factual information to those who are looking for it, without the never-ending whinge "oh my good I'm addicted that's so terrible blablbabla, must stop etc."

Actually I think that the process of "stopping" is no major hurdle for most people, it's just what to do after one stops.

How to fill the emptiness.

Sure some people change into christian capitalists and embrace government doctrines, but for anyone with an open mind that sucks and is unacceptable.

And why stop if one can manage one's intake and carefully balance effects against sideeffects, i.e. fight's one substances side effects with another substances' side effect. That might read like crazy talk but it isn't.

That's basically what shamanism is about, knowledge about plants and their extracts and how to use them wisely.

[Jesus On Peyote]

"And why stop if one can manage one's intake and carefully balance effects against sideeffects, i.e. fight's one substances side effects with another substances' side effect. That might read like crazy talk but it isn't."

I totally agree with that and i dont think its crazy talk.

Swim used to have the same attitude towards opiates, that was untill his first encounter with codeine (the weakest opiate?) which he used every now and then, and altho codeine isent very strong i made him make a mental note NEVER to try any other kind of opiates (cept maybe Poppies ,one day just to see) because if codeine can make one feel that good then i cant imagine what a heavy user of any opiates (especially H) would have to feel like on a daily bases, weather trying to get "on" or off it.

Stay strong

[gomaos]

it's all a matter of willpower really.

I.e. if someone decides to give up an addiction, i. e. alcoholism, or junk, and he's really got the will to do it, and perhaps has some little helpers somehow, then one will give up.

On the other hand, if that decision is forced on someone,. i.e. someone gets busted and has to wait a long time for the trial, sometimes years, then if that someone has enough willpower, he'll stay clean of whatever substances in question, so that his tests will show negative, which helps with his trial.

After the trial, however the outcome, the person in question will not necessarily become a born-again fuckwit, but most likely return to his old habits, saying, "

thank ... that's over and done with..."

as in foaf's case, he tricked himself into taking up alcohol again.

Nevertheless he stopped for almost a month, clean of alc and codeine...

Then a few days ago, foaf tried some cactusextract which someone gave him, not knowing how strong it was.

A small remark re cactus extracts: They can be extremely different.

i think there's a huge difference, whether bridgesii, or say, pachanoi and peruvianus are used. The pach/peruv trip most likely wiull be smooth and euphoric, compatible to "e" but way better and cleaner.

Bridgesii extract however, especially if strong, can easily be like an overpowering acid trip.

So that's what happened a few days ago, the cactus trip was too strong and foaf had no valium or other benzoes in the house, since the only reason he ever needs those are bad trips and they only happen once a year or less.

however this was one of them. The trip came on way to fast and seemed to peak endlessly.. Much too strong for foaf's taste and he yearned for benzoes but didn't have any.

then he remembered a simpsons epidsode, the one where Homer accidentally mixes peyote into fruitjuice and sends the whole town of springfield trippin.

In the case of Barney, the alcoholic, he drinks his juice and a horrible mescaline monster appears and frightens him. But he says, "no worries," drinks a can of piss, and through the door comes Pinky, the alcohol elephant, and tramples the mescaline monster to death.

Foaf then biked it to the bottleshop and bought a bottle of good scotch (name forgotten sorry)

And it totally worked. The tenseness, stressed-outness from the overpowering trip faded and gave way to alc drunkenness. he slept well that night, but was very touchy, aggro, and easily upset by the smallest thing the next day.

Foaf had been trying to get onto cannabis for a few weeks then, whatever contact he tried the answer was thew same: "haven't got any, have been busted etc..."

The government must be spending huge amounts on the war on drugs, which is really war on people and personal freedom. The result - in the state where foaf lives- is a horrible cannabis drought.

So yesterday, he got pissed off with the whole thing, and bought some booze, because that's what the government wants.

Somebody said recently: "The reason the government tries to make even 60 year olds work, is because they have to pay all those pensions to babyboomers..."

total crap

if the governemnt stopped the war on drugs they'd have tons of money.

But why do they make war on drugs? Only because of those idiots Bush and Howard and their suckers.

There's no logical reason for the war on drugs.

[AndyAmine.]

I would like to again touch on the subject of jst how powerful the mind is and how much it can effect ones addiction both in positive and negative ways.

IMO what someone is told about thier addiction makes a really big differnce and is a major part of whats contributing to the 'ice epedemic' of today.

What I mean is the more you tell a person something is addictive the more they belive it and effectivly the more addictive it truely becomes.. so all this media hype about it being the most addictive drug in the world/history only makes the problem worse...

No doubt this also works to a degree with the pot and shcizophrenia thing, the more you tell a person he is nuts the more he will start to belive you and start to over anaylise the situation..

I think docu-dramas like 'the secret' and 'what the bleep do we know?' put this point accross well at some points throughout thier presentations.... the power of the mind is an amazing thing.

Its like media sponsered NLP. LOL and its also pandering to the addicts vitcim mentality.

Edited February 20, 2007 by AndyAmine.

[AndyAmine.]

Foaf had been trying to get onto cannabis for a few weeks then, whatever contact he tried the answer was thew same: "haven't got any, have been busted etc..."

The government must be spending huge amounts on the war on drugs, which is really war on people and personal freedom. The result - in the state where foaf lives- is a horrible cannabis drought.

So yesterday, he got pissed off with the whole thing, and bought some booze, because that's what the government wants.

There is a drought on now? Perhpas its jst in your part of brizzy, particularly if there have been a lot of busts in in your local area or in your circles of friends.

I cant say I have noticed... from what my friends say, sure there is less A-grade floating around and the price is up a bit but there is no shortage of mid-grade and down?

No offence my good friend but from one addict to another that jst sounds like a good excuse to have a drink..... ;)

Edited February 20, 2007 by AndyAmine.

[gomaos]

IMO what someone is told about thier addiction makes a really big difernce and is a major part of whats contributing to the 'ice epedemic'.

What I mean is the more you tell a person something is addictive the more they belive it and effectivly the more addictive it truely becomes.. so all this media hype about it being the most addictive drug in the world/history only makes the problem worse..

totally agree here.

I don't read all the threads and all the hype on tv etc about the "ice epidemic"

I have foaf.

Foaf told me all about it.

It's an extremely strong drug. 50 mg meth will "entertain" the taker for 12 hrs or longer, that's if the meth is totally pure and there's no tolerance.

It will make you go round in an infinite circle of stupidity.

Whatever your favourite thing, you'll do just that and totally enjoy it.

But you have to pay for it.

Say you're 24 hrs on meth without sleep, to get back to normal you'll have to sleep for a few days. Forget about work or partying, just sleep...

It totally drains the person who takes it.

Foaf cannot even imagine what people who take meth every day, must feel like.

it must be horrible...

Meth has even been called by the people who make and use it "an evil drug'

I don't believe in evil drugs, no drugs are evil, but only the people who use or abuse them.

But meth ain't no toy. Only very (drug)experienced people should try it.

Definitely not young people who haven't even found themselves yet.

Too strong.

But the same thing goes in no way for cannabis.

Organic "bush" cannabis is basically goodand I would recommend it to anyone.

On the other hand, hydro which has been mostly grown from poisonous agents, can be harmful and is not recommendable. it's ok if eaten but smoking it is potentially harmful.

Edited February 20, 2007 by gomaos