Big Day Out bans Aussie Flag

[nil]

Banning the flag is a good idea but doesn't go far enough. All flags and other nationalistic parafernalia should be banned. Not just at the big day out, but everywhere. Fuck flags, fuck nationalism.

fuck it all!

[nabraxas]

Imagine there's no countries

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion too

Imagine all the people

Living life in peace...

[Lono]

When in doubt, consult the oracle known as Bill Hicks:

"See, a flag … is just a piece of cloth. They may have died for freedom, which is also the freedom to burn the fucking flag, see."

Belf

And presumably the freedom to fly it also.

Whats wrong with nationalism anyway? Nationalism doesn't cause war. War, sadly, is ingrained in the human psyche. classwar, racewar, religiouswar, war on terror, war on drugs. Whats next? A war on nationalism? At the end of the day we've all got a bit of the Hatfields and the McCoys in us.

The flag need not symbolise just government institutions its a symbol of everything that it flies over. Good or Bad. We need do discourage people from disgracing it not discourage pride in the flag itself, whether it be the current flag or some amalgamation of the aboriginal flag and the southern cross, the uereka stockade flag i mean why not even use the aboriginal flag to represent us all.

The point is its the AUSTRALIAN flag whatever is printed on it.

Edited January 25, 2007 by Lono

[SaBReT00tH]

This is just stupid. Can you imagine something like the UK's Glastonbury festival banning English flags or designs from entering their concert? Or the Germany flag being banned at Oktoberfest? There would be riots? But Australian's are too lazy to and unpatriotic to care when it happens to them. They just let the mselves be dictated to by governments and power brokers who want to have complete control and power over the population!

[sobriquet]

I believe in free speech. Free speech allows me to say anything I want. I could swear and curse and cause mischeif by screaming out "Fire" in a movie theatre because I'm free to say whatever I want.

Even though I could do this, because I'm free to do it, I don't do it. Why? Because I have a brain, because I have the ability to filter reality and do what brings credit, togetherness and love, and avoid what causes mischief, hatred and division.

It's the same with the flag, I could burn it, but I wouldn't even if I don't agree with it. Why? Because it achieves no purpose ultimately. Even the act of burning it, gives it credence. Insulting what is dear to others will just bring like in return. Nationalism of any flavour is ultimately divisive.

There's no room for pride. Pride is having satisfaction in, or having a high opinion of one's own achievements. Don't be proud, just achieve. Let other people be satisfied in them, and have a high opinion of them. Let others marvel at it. Pride is like vanity. Pride is poison.

[apothecary]

This is just stupid. Can you imagine something like the UK's Glastonbury festival banning English flags or designs from entering their concert? Or the Germany flag being banned at Oktoberfest? There would be riots? But Australian's are too lazy to and unpatriotic to care when it happens to them. They just let the mselves be dictated to by governments and power brokers who want to have complete control and power over the population!

How does the government have anything to do with this?

This issue was completely overhyped by the media (*gasp* aren't we all surprised) and to argue about the "patriotic" issues is to simply buy into their bullshit.

Edited January 25, 2007 by apothecary

[apothecary]

I believe in free speech. Free speech allows me to say anything I want. I could swear and curse and cause mischeif by screaming out "Fire" in a movie theatre because I'm free to say whatever I want.

I am guessing you mean, freedom of speech. If so, your example is definitely not an example of freedom of speech.

Anyway, the only protection for freedom of speech guaranteed by precedent in Australian courts is political speech.

[sobriquet]

I am guessing you mean, freedom of speech. If so, your example is definitely not an example of freedom of speech.

Anyway, the only protection for freedom of speech guaranteed by precedent in Australian courts is political speech.

No. I mean true free speech.

The freedom to speak, say or express whatever it is your brain wants. I believe therefore in unbound freedom of speech. Free speech which has no external censorship or precautions.

[Yes I know what you are alluding to. Free speech does not imply a freedom to lie, but I was trying to form an analogy of a mischeivous act to the burning of a flag which I believe is also unnecessary and mischeivous.]

[Green Osiris]

I agree with sobriquet's sentiments wholeheartedly - in theory. In reality, we all must exercise an element of self-control when it comes to freedom of speech, as would be acceptable in the society in which we exist. This imposed silencing can be seen in the workforce,a place that would typically have more 'rules' on freedom of speech than the outside world. How many of you can listen to your boss suggest a directive that you don't agree with, and be able to turn around and say 'that's a fucking stupid idea' ? Even if you think it to be the case, and are able to 'diplomatically' tell him/her that you disagree in suble terms, there's often no acceptable opportunity to speak one's mind.

Having started a new job a month ago (I am a credit controller), I am lucky enough to be able to debate job-related issues with my boss, and nut it out until an agreeable medium is reached - albiet with his final nod. But I still don't have the freedom to do same with other elements of the business. I can hardy walk up to the VP of sales and proceed to give them an analysis on how what THAT team does is counter productive to cash-flow, and that the extremely highly paid wankers are not interested in the company's best interest, but their own.

Outside of a work situation, i find that there is a greater level of freedom (of speech) but this is dependant on more who I hang out with. If we are to initiate sob's utopian ideal of "say or express whatever it is your brain wants", then Id be telling the girls on the checkout of the local fruit market that I think they have fat asses, should look after their hair a bit more and that their apathy in a front-line customer service position is unproductive towards securing return customers.

Therefore our freedom of speech is restricted not only by governmental law, but societal expectations of behavior. To extend upon this theme, consider the 'thumbs up' physical statement that is commonly accepted in Australia as being a sign of positive agreement, a 'rubber stamp' of approval. However if you pull that sign out in a country like Yemen, you'll be harrassed at the least, and beaten if you throw it to someone with a short fuse, for it means, in that culture, somethikng akin to 'stick a cow up your momma's ass'. (dont quote me on that)

Anyway, Im getting off track, albiet an importatnt interlude into what i maight present from this point.....

[sobriquet]

I agree with sobriquet's sentiments wholeheartedly - in theory. In reality, we all must exercise an element of self-control when it comes to freedom of speech, as would be acceptable in the society in which we exist. This imposed silencing can be seen in the workforce,a place that would typically have more 'rules' on freedom of speech than the outside world. How many of you can listen to your boss suggest a directive that you don't agree with, and be able to turn around and say 'that's a fucking stupid idea' ? Even if you think it to be the case, and are able to 'diplomatically' tell him/her that you disagree in suble terms, there's often no acceptable opportunity to speak one's mind.

Having started a new job a month ago (I am a credit controller), I am lucky enough to be able to debate job-related issues with my boss, and nut it out until an agreeable medium is reached - albiet with his final nod. But I still don't have the freedom to do same with other elements of the business. I can hardy walk up to the VP of sales and proceed to give them an analysis on how what THAT team does is counter productive to cash-flow, and that the extremely highly paid wankers are not interested in the company's best interest, but their own.

Outside of a work situation, i find that there is a greater level of freedom (of speech) but this is dependant on more who I hang out with. If we are to initiate sob's utopian ideal of "say or express whatever it is your brain wants", then Id be telling the girls on the checkout of the local fruit market that I think they have fat asses, should look after their hair a bit more and that their apathy in a front-line customer service position is unproductive towards securing return customers.

Therefore our freedom of speech is restricted not only by governmental law, but societal expectations of behavior. To extend upon this theme, consider the 'thumbs up' physical statement that is commonly accepted in Australia as being a sign of positive agreement, a 'rubber stamp' of approval. However if you pull that sign out in a country like Yemen, you'll be harrassed at the least, and beaten if you throw it to someone with a short fuse, for it means, in that culture, somethikng akin to 'stick a cow up your momma's ass'. (dont quote me on that)

Anyway, Im getting off track, albiet an importatnt interlude into what i maight present from this point.....

Agreed. That's why I specifically noted that there should be no EXTERNAL censorship or precautions, but as you note society and individuals must have internal/individual filtration and control. Personal responsibility and public censure must apply, not censorship or external controls.

Edited January 25, 2007 by sobriquet

[FungalFractoids]

^^ You try running an event as large as the BDO with no external controls or precautions.

[sobriquet]

^^ You try running an event as large as the BDO with no external controls or precautions.

Try actually reading the thread and the context of those statements rather than just blurting out your usual brain farts.

Or maybe you're just going out of your way to make yourself look like an idiot?

[narayan]

Did anyone go to the sydney bdo? What was it like?

[FungalFractoids]

Try actually reading the thread and the context of those statements rather than just blurting out your usual brain farts.

Or maybe you're just going out of your way to make yourself look like an idiot?

LOL... Yeah, I love you too, buddy.

[Mort]

Did anyone go to the sydney bdo? What was it like?

Awesome awesome day ;-)

It was actually a very casual affair all in all. I saw a lot of people with Aussie t-shirts and the temp Tats but the only flags I saw were wrapped around the drunk 15 year old boys running around trying to look cool. Its my 13th year of going and I'd have to say I found it a lot more relaxed then the past couple of years have been.

They have changed a few things to keep it a little calmer .

2-drink limit @ the bar and spirits only in plastic cups($6 bucks a pop ouch )

The boiler room is now HUGE but can now handle a much larger crowd ( was in the dome @ around 6K max )

D bar / mosh pit entry has been modified to make it safer .

Might just be me but I did notice a lot more drug use this year , what with the drinks being harder to get it was easy to get on the pills . Not sure if thats a good thing but makes for a more loved up crowd. ;-)

TOOL were very very good too btw

[narayan]

Cheers mort, glad to hear it was a good day. I'm pumped about the adelaide bdo on friday tool, muse, the vines, three of my favourite bands of 2006 who i'll be seeing all in the same day, can't get any better than that

[Jesus On Peyote]

It's suprising to see so many paranoid nationalists on this forum!

Indeed