reshroomED Posted January 11, 2007 (edited) Recently (06/12/07) sent Sebas (located in the Netherlands) a cutting. And before going any further I'd like to stress that Sebas has been cool, very understanding, good comm's etc. But the cutting hasn't arrived. I make a point of insuring all OS parcels at my own expense, but can't find a receipt for either postage or insurance (and I'm pretty anal when it comes to receipts). The PO are being less than helpful. So the question is: "Has anyone had a parcel to The Netherlands held up by customs etc?" I'll replace Sebus' cutting with a bigger, better version, if the intended cutting is still AWOL in a fortnight, but it would also be nice if someone would verify my credibility in this regard in the meantime by pm. cheers ed Edited January 16, 2007 by reshroomED Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 11, 2007 I once had problems with a box of cacti to the UK. they were held up because all cacti are CITES controlled and even though these Trichs were common as muck, they still fall under CITES protection. This was one parcel out of hundreds over the years. Sometimes parcels end up in the sea mail stream rather than airmail. that means it might not get there for a total of 12 weeks [usually 8-10]. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bongchitis Posted January 16, 2007 Does anyone see the need to verify reshroomED's credibility? ..........speaks for itself mate! Anyone who has been here for any amount of time it seems would have nothing but praise. Me personally, well I can only say that this is one honest/generous individual. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reshroomED Posted January 16, 2007 Ta Torsten, the air/sea confusion hadn't occurred to me, but little would surprise me with them. Sometimes they weigh only, sometimes weight & length, sometimes weight & length & width. Got me buggerred. There seems to be little consistency. I'm more kicking myself for not having a receipt for the insurance. AusPost don't seem to be able to track the item without the receipt . Much appreciated comment Bongchitis, but actually meant that to be via pm (I've edited above post to suit). Not trying for public acclaim . ed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted January 16, 2007 (edited) Something like this has just happened to me too. Someone sent me some cact which haven´t been labeled and the customs seized them as they didn´t knew what species it actually was. It´s rare but the European customs seem to do this from time to time. They informed me by mail and sent me the cacti. The half of them has been dead at that time. They then wrote me a mail that i should send the cacti back to them as i wasn´t allowed to import them without papers. But then they changed their mind and obliged me to pay a 35€ warning fee and to not do it again Otherwise i´ll probably have to pay another 35€. It´s like a fee for parking in the wrong line.lol. Kind of bizarre though. bye Eg Edited January 16, 2007 by Evil Genius Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebas Posted January 16, 2007 (edited) Hi all, Not one moment have I felt troubled by the situation, nor have I doubted Ed's credibility at any time. Ed = cool, end of discussion. I did come up with the idea myself the package might (accidentally or intentional) be traveling by boat instead of plane. But I kinda dropped the idea since we pay extra to specifically have it shipped by air... maybe I was being naive... Today I called our customs services, they were helpful and confirmed what I already knew. A plant or cutting that is not considered endangered or anything, for personal purposes, isn't any problem! If in a rare case the packaged IS held back for investigation, they send out a message to inform the recipient. I can actually contact the intake service by email, to double-check if there isn't a package there for me. I will try doing so tomorrow. It's true, also in Europe, that tracking can only be done with the tracking-code. Thanks everyone. Edited January 16, 2007 by Sebas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 18, 2007 I did come up with the idea myself the package might (accidentally or intentional) be traveling by boat instead of plane. But I kinda dropped the idea since we pay extra to specifically have it shipped by air... maybe I was being naive... I received a small padded envelope from a european seed supplier today - 8 weeks late. It had definitely gone by boat even though the sender put 24 euro on it. That is enough to send a small parcel, let alone a padded envelope. Mind you, there was no airmail sticker on it, so maybe that's what caused it. Today I called our customs services, they were helpful and confirmed what I already knew. A plant or cutting that is not considered endangered or anything, for personal purposes, isn't any problem! All members of the family cactaceae are CITES listed and custom MUST stop them under international treaty. ie, they informed you right, but you interpreted it wrong. All cacti ARE listed as endangered and hence are not allowed. 'Personal purposes' makes no difference, although prosecuting individuals is probably not worth their while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reshroomED Posted January 18, 2007 All members of the family cactaceae are CITES listed and custom MUST stop them under international treaty. ie, they informed you right, but you interpreted it wrong. All cacti ARE listed as endangered and hence are not allowed. 'Personal purposes' makes no difference, although prosecuting individuals is probably not worth their while. Do you know the procedure that applies in this case ie. impoundment, treatment, destruction? It was clearly labelled as a live cactus cutting, which is perhaps the problem. Although, I've sent many this way before. Only thing I've ever sent overseas mis-labelled was a kangaroo scrotum (tanned for gear-stick knob cover), which arrived no problems. ed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 18, 2007 Do you know the procedure that applies in this case ie. impoundment, treatment, destruction? Mine were impoounded and destroyed I believe. truely rare plants would probably be returned to the CITES authority of the originating country. It was clearly labelled as a live cactus cutting, which is perhaps the problem. My bet is still that it went by ship or got lost. I presume you have double checked all addresses etc? When customs intervenes they usually send a letter. Especially if it is a CITES matter. In australia they always send a letter, but I know that some other countries are nto quite as diligent. Only thing I've ever sent overseas mis-labelled was a kangaroo scrotum (tanned for gear-stick knob cover), which arrived no problems. hmmm, yes, nothing like the feel of roo scrotum everytime you want to change gears what did you label it as? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sobriquet Posted January 18, 2007 How about shipping minimal areolar grafts? The recipient can graft them onto a suitable understock and grow on. Surely this could get through? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebas Posted January 18, 2007 All members of the family cactaceae are CITES listed and custom MUST stop them under international treaty. ie, they informed you right, but you interpreted it wrong. All cacti ARE listed as endangered and hence are not allowed. 'Personal purposes' makes no difference, although prosecuting individuals is probably not worth their while. The person I talked to at CS said that when a cactus cutting arrives, THEY don't stop or investigate it. That's all I know... In the Netherlands "personal use" does count for something. It's documented on the website of the custom services that for plants in quantities of less than approx 5 kilograms, rules are applied less strict. Only thing I know is what I've been told by dutch custom services. I don't know about international treaty, or how these rules are applied, but I tend to believe my custom services. I know you're probably right Torsten, but could it be individual countries tend to follow their own directives? I.e. "condone" certain situations or simply interpret them less strict? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebas Posted January 18, 2007 In australia they always send a letter, but I know that some other countries are nto quite as diligent. Checked. Post-office told me that when something is held back by CS, a letter will be sent out to the recipient. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebas Posted January 18, 2007 How about shipping minimal areolar grafts?The recipient can graft them onto a suitable understock and grow on. Surely this could get through? If it's small enough, I'd say put it in some protective material and send it in an (normal or larger) envelope. Probably not much checking will occur when doing so, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 18, 2007 The person I talked to at CS said that when a cactus cutting arrives, THEY don't stop or investigate it. That's all I know... Last year I asked customs if it was legal to import salvia divinorum. They replied that it was legal to do so. This was obviously wrong and when I asked to get the statement on a letter head they suddenly recanted. In the Netherlands "personal use" does count for something. Only in regards to drugs. We are talking about conservation here. if you imported an endangered species as an individual and got away with it then what would be the point of the legislation?!? It's documented on the website of the custom services that for plants in quantities of less than approx 5 kilograms, rules are applied less strict. This is about quarantine and other laws, but does not apply to CITES. I don't know about international treaty, or how these rules are applied, but I tend to believe my custom services. Maybe not the best choice as you have obviously been told the wrong thing. see below. I know you're probably right Torsten, but could it be individual countries tend to follow their own directives? I.e. "condone" certain situations or simply interpret them less strict? I am well aware of dutch laws and the more liberal approach they take to personal freedoms. However, they have also taken a more strict approach to many conservation issues such as CITES. here are some paragraphs from the dutch customs website: Under PRIVATE imports it says: "Customs may also establish that you violated rules which have nothing to do with taxation, but carry a punishment all the same. For example, you hid counterfeit goods in your baggage, or brought in endangered animal or plant species without the required CITES certificate. If this is the case, Customs will draw up an official report and confiscate the goods. The official report will be sent to the public prosecutor, who will institute criminal proceedings." also under private imports it says: "The trade in seriously threatened species is prohibited. The trade in less seriously threatened species is only allowed if special CITES documents have been issued for that purpose by the governments involved (an export licence by the country of departure and an import licence by the country of destination). Examples of protected animal and plant species include: * exotic plants, such as orchids and cactuses;" The cites list can be found here: http://www.cites.org/ btw, I am not saying that I agree with CITES regulation as they apply to Echinopsis for example, but this discussion is about the law that might have been applied to your parcel, not about what we think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sobriquet Posted January 18, 2007 If it's small enough, I'd say put it in some protective material and send it in an (normal or larger) envelope.Probably not much checking will occur when doing so, right? Precisely. Strategically placed cardboard protection in a padded envelope should mean multiple small areolar grafts could be sent via mail in a a close to standard envelope. Boxes and parcels are what draws attention most of the time. There are far too many envelopes to check really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reshroomED Posted January 18, 2007 Seems I should have looked further into legalities. What really pisses me off is my lack of receipts. I file all my plant transaction receipts in a dedicated folder. Found receipts dating back three years, but not the ones I need. If nothing has occurred in a few more weeks I'll try to wangle some info from the PO people. I often send from a small town not too far from home, and they're pretty friendly there, so I'll give them a try. hmmm, yes, nothing like the feel of roo scrotum everytime you want to change gears what did you label it as? So the Yanks tell me, personally I'm a big tough Aussie bloke so have goat ball-bags on my gear-knobs. Now, there's *nothing* like the feel of a goat's scrotum everytime you want to change gears. Those Yanks are strange. It was packed in rock-salt to retain pliability, so labelled as 'mineral specimen'. ed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 18, 2007 Seems I should have looked further into legalities. seriously, the most likely scenario is that it went by ship or was delivered to the wrong address. The ship thing happens all the time an is very frustrating. btw, I sometimes get parcels back from overseas even though the address is correct. Apparently they are not too good about sending our notification cards in some countries [eg germany], so the parcel just sits there and get sent home after 4 weeks. Problem is that they usually return it via sea mail, so either way you won't know anything until the 3 to 5 months are up. That's better than parcels to and from argentina though - they can take up to 11 months one way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
