Virgin P. Somniferum cultivator seeks wisdom

[Lizard_King]

Really impressed with the quality of knowledge and good minds here, so was wondering if any of you with prior experience in P. Som. could share your expertise.

By way of background, SWIM cut his teeth in the theory of cultivating this amazing plant by reading 'Opium for the Masses', which he found to be an exhaustive reference tool for anyone pursuing this venture and also by reading various threads on the topic, contributed by many experienced heads on forums such as this. He has, however, had no practcal experience of raising them.

Not being an Aussie national and having only been in the country just shy of two years, SWIM's not familiar with the nuances of this type of cultivation in the Australian climate.

SWIM has access to a number of SAB's Persian White seeds and is looking to get the most out of them.

He has read from various sources that sowing these puppies is best done in spring or autumn, but was unaware if this applied to the climate in the Sydney area. When do you think would be the best time to sow?

Due to a lack of soil in his courtyard, he is looking to raise his babies in pots.

In the aforementioned publication, the author cites that these plants don't root very deep and therefore do not require huge pots. Has anyone ever gone this route and with what success? He also understands that a sandy, well aerated/drained soil is best for them - any ideas as to what soil mixtures can be deemed suitable? Is is useful to mix potting mix with perlite, vermiculite and/or sand?

Also, does anyone know specifically what kind of ferts should be used in the mix to start the seedlings, or should this be left until they are more established? Obviously the ferts need to be changed to suit the flowering cycle.

SWIM's read a few threads on relative potency of different strains and was always under the impression that the Persian Whites were among the highest. Can anyone confirm or deny?

He is truly grateful for any light that can be shed on this as he wants to begin the growing season in earnest!

Peace

Lizard King

[faustus]

hi lizard,

damnit i lost my original post! anyways, basically the most imformative resource i've found about growing poppies and producing opium is from a shroomery thread:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.p...111/an/0/page/0

read that and i'm sure you'll find the answers

[Torsten]

spring is the better time for the cooler places, but in sydney spring germinations don't do well due to the hot summers. most people in sydney sow them in autumn.

[Lizard_King]

spring is the better time for the cooler places, but in sydney spring germinations don't do well due to the hot summers. most people in sydney sow them in autumn.

OK guys, thanks for the input - I'll look into it...

[John_Barleycorn]

A FOAF told me that Tassies leave Persians and almost everything else behind in the dust.

As for the planting time issue, there seems to be some ambiguity whether it is heat or light that stunts growth. The conventional wisdom from the northern hemisphere is that if you plant too late once the nights have become too short, then the poppies will bolt to seed. OTOH, some practical experience from my FOAF suggests that shadecloth is an effective means of lengthening the season, suggesting that heat (or maybe UV) probably comes come into it as well in Australia. Also, the greater the latitude, the greater this night effect would expected to be, and it should be remembered that places like England and Holland are way north compared to most of Oz and even the US. In a typical year in my neck of the woods, poppies that have germinated in Aug will be developing brown leaves by Dec - meaning no more growth. With this year's atypical spring, however, growth started to stunt back in Oct, so some plants then went under cloth. Unlike the others, these continued to develop, produced multiple pods, and in some cases the pods continued to expand after their flowers dropped - all of which is music to a poppy grower's ears!

I get the impression that poppies may be a bit like hops in that what they most want (after they reach the vegetative growth stage) is long albeit cool days. Hence, the popularity of locations such as Tasmania and NZ. Another thing that doesn't seem to get much of a mention is that they could refer some lime in the soil.

Edited January 14, 2007 by John_Barleycorn

[Lizard_King]

A FOAF told me that Tassies leave Persians and almost everything else behind in the dust.

As for the planting time issue, there seems to be some ambiguity whether it is heat or light that stunts growth. The conventional wisdom from the northern hemisphere is that if you plant too late once the nights have become too short, then the poppies will bolt to seed. OTOH, some practical experience from my FOAF suggests that shadecloth is an effective means of lengthening the season, suggesting that heat (or maybe UV) probably comes come into it as well in Australia. Also, the greater the latitude, the greater this night effect would expected to be, and it should be remembered that places like England and Holland are way north compared to most of Oz and even the US. In a typical year in my neck of the woods, poppies that have germinated in Aug will be developing brown leaves by Dec - meaning no more growth. With this year's atypical spring, however, growth started to stunt back in Oct, so some plants then went under cloth. Unlike the others, these continued to develop, produced multiple pods, and in some cases the pods continued to expand after their flowers dropped - all of which is music to a poppy grower's ears!

I get the impression that poppies may be a bit like hops in that what they most want (after they reach the vegetative growth stage) is long albeit cool days. Hence, the popularity of locations such as Tasmania and NZ. Another thing that doesn't seem to get much of a mention is that they could refer some lime in the soil.

Thanks for the info John, may I PM you to discuss in more detail?

Lizard King

[John_Barleycorn]

Thanks for the info John, may I PM you to discuss in more detail?

Sure, but I'm hardly an expert.

A couple more observations on this heat vs. light issue, however. The fact that poppies grow at altitude in places like the Golden Triangle suggests that heat rather than UV is the problem. On the other hand, my Persians (ornamentals, of course ) are currently powering in full shade with temperatures hitting 35C there and more like 50C in the sun. From experience, I would have said that once maxima start regularly hitting 28C or so, it is time to get poppies out of the sun. So, some sort of interaction between radiation and ambient temperature is probably involved. This "plant in Autumn" idea that people keep repeating strikes me as a little suspect, as it neglects the location and it neglects how the season is travelling. For example, plants sown in Perth in March will fry most years, I would have thought. I suspect this recommendation possibly reflects the sub-tropical interests of many folks here, where growing (at least in direct light) is best done over winter.

[XipeTotec]

at my parents place, we had ornamentals which would self seed every year. They would come up very early spring, and flower in November... so that might give an indication of when to plant your seeds. They grew in very average conditions, but where usually nice big plants.

[John_Barleycorn]

A FOAF has performed some further R&D into this planting-time issue which may be old news to some but hopefully still of interest. This has mostly been done using Tasmanian ornamentals because of the legality issue.

The main factor seems to be temperature at the leaf. Poppies can handle 40C, but not 50C, and an hour a day's exposure to high temperatures is enough to stunt growth. It is possible to hit that limit on a nominally 25C day, provided that it is still, cloudless and dry. That limit will be hit at 30C ambient, regardless of conditions. A single layer of 100% UV shadecloth is good for about 35C nominal, but any hotter and it takes multiple layers and/or full shade.

It has been suggested from time to time that the Autumn crop is always less productive than the Spring crop. Bollocks. I would say this is due to inadequate heat protection in the early growth stages. My acquaintance has gotten into the habit of planting in late Jan/early Feb in order to beat the frost at harvest time, and has had no problems whatsoever. In fact, there are certain advantages with the slower pod maturation that occurs when harvesting in the cold, like that the pods don't bleach as soon as you turn your back on them. Incidentally, by planting successfully a month out from the Summer solstice, this also illustrates that day-length is probably not a big deal in temperate latitudes.

[2b]

I 've heard that Tassies don't seem to bleed like the Turkish commercial.