more maoi

[Hagakure]

okay found a few papers from the journal of ethnopharmacology

one article was on Uncaria rhynchophylla

reville mentioned it in 2002 according to search engine

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...a+rhynchophylla

anyways this paper mentioned MAO-B inhibition. and apprently the plant grows from seed. so has anyone tracked it down?

its in chinese medicine. actually sounds like a very good medicinal plant to have reading the article. (i can email the article to peeps interested)

so yeah, anyone chased this one down, doing anything with it?

another paper talked about MAOB inhibition in tumeric (Curcuma longa)

they made polar extracts, gave em to mice and "The effects of the extracts at the dose of 560 mg/kg were more potent than that of reference antidepressant fluoxetine."

if that means anything to anyone

so yeah - anyone getting any MAOI love from these plants?

edit: apparently Uncaria rhynchophylla is also called Gambir Vine or Gou Teng. might be able to purchase dried herbs but cant find seeds etc yet say - wasnt a forum member here living in china at the moment? surely thats where we will get seeds if anywhere

2nd edit: also called cats claw apparently

here is somethign from a chinese medicine site

"Cat’s Claw General Information

Cat's Claw (Gambir) is a woody, climbing shrub native to China and other parts of southeast Asia. Most of the stem branches have hook-like appendages, which the plant uses to attach itself to a surface. The indigenous people of Peru use Cat’s Claw stems as a treatment for cancer, diabetes, ulcers, arthritis, infections, and as an aid in recovery from childbirth. It is also used as a contraceptive. Samento is the rare form of Cat's Claw, only it is different in that it is 1000 times stronger in strengthening the immune system. Even though scientific studies offer no conclusive evidence as to this plant's healing benefits, increased awareness has prompted the cultivation of Cat’s Claw, which is now a major source of revenue for the Ashaninka Indian tribe of Peru."

i really want one of these now

Edited October 26, 2006 by Hagakure

[foolsbreath]

If they have it Butan, I may be able to get some seeds sent over. They tend to have some of chinese and indian flora and fauna and have a long history of herbal medicine there

[foolsbreath]

Ok they do have it in Bhutan, where it is considered rare. groes in the Uncaria rhynchophyllaT angu andBarshong provinces between 2000 and 3500m of altitude

It is a Rubiaceae and considered to be fern like, I'll see what I can do

[Hagakure]

cheers for the interest foolsbreath. give it a crack if you want and good luck.

confused about it being native to china etc but huge industry in peru?

from reading i get the feeling there may be a few "cats claws" around

Uncaria tomentosa pops up in some searchs aswell

will sort this out later

when i get some time (1 1/2 weeks of busyness to go) i will check out some chinese medicine places and see whats available.

edit: okay seems cats claw is mostly used to descibe the south american variety

"Cat’s Claw (U.tomentosa) is a large, woody vine that derives its name from hook like thorns that grow along the vine and resemble the claws of a cat. Two closely related species of Uncaria are used almost interchangeably in the rainforests: U. tomentosa and U. guianensis. Both species can reach over 30 m high into the canopy. U. tomentosa has small, yellowish-white flowers, whereas U. guianensis has reddish-orange flowers and thorns that are more curved. Cat’s Claw is indigenous to the Amazon rainforest and other tropical areas of South and Central America, including Peru, Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Trinidad, Venezuela, Suriname, Costa Rica, Guatemala, and Panama.

There are no other species of plants with a common name of cat’s claw (or Uña de Gato) in Mexico and Latin America; However, they are entirely different plants, not belonging to the Uncaria genus, or even the Rubiaceae family. Several of the Mexican Uña de Gato varieties have toxic properties."

no idea if it has maois yet

2nd edit: okay the first quote in my first post may be bullshit. i think they may have mixed up the Uncaria species

Edited October 26, 2006 by Hagakure

[Rev]

gambir is in Bali

(easy access)

go hunting. its grown locally in villages to process to cubes that go in betel quids

propagated by cuttings mostly

[Torsten]

Gambir is grown all over indonesia. It is one of the major sources of tanning used for making hides. The water extract which is sold as solidified cubes is also used to flavour betel quids in parts of indonesia. The flavour is kinda like bacon flavoured bananaskins

So, gambir is mainly grown for the tanning, not for the alkaloids.

The cats claw in Peru is Uncaria tomentosa and U.guianensis. Both are grown for their alkaloids and are used largely interchangably.

Rhynchophylline is an interesting alkaloid. It has many health benefits. It is also a major constituent in kratom. From memory I think it was also found in our native Nauclea.

[Hagakure]

cheers for the info guys.

so has anyone tried gambir as a MAOI? what about tumeric?

might grab some of both of these soon and see how it goes.

[Fenris]

I found some reference to curcumin and MAOI and after checking the boards, this was the only thread I could find.

I thought Tumeric as a MAOI was worthy of more research. And wondered if and how much might be required to meet the level of inhibition found in 3g of harmala or 100g of vine?

http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstract.bme/...dopamine_system

RATIONALE: Curcumin is a major active principle of Curcuma longa, one of the widely used preparations in the Indian system of medicine. It is known for its diverse biological actions. OBJECTIVE: The present study was designed to investigate the involvement of monoaminergic system(s) in the antidepressant activity of curcumin and the effect of piperine, a bioavailability enhancer, on the bioavailability and biological effects of curcumin. METHODS AND OBSERVATIONS: Behavioral (forced swim test), biochemical (monoamine oxidase (MAO) enzyme inhibitory activity), and neurochemical (neurotransmitter levels estimation) tests were carried out. Curcumin (10-80 mg/kg, i.p.) dose dependently inhibited the immobility period, increased serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine, 5-HT) as well as dopamine levels (at higher doses), and inhibited the monoamine oxidase enzymes (both MAO-A and MAO-B, higher doses) in mice. Curcumin (20 mg/kg, i.p.) enhanced the anti-immobility effect of subthreshold doses of various antidepressant drugs like fluoxetine, venlafaxine, or bupropion. However, no significant change in the anti-immobility effect of imipramine and desipramine was observed. Furthermore, combination of subthreshold dose of curcumin and various antidepressant drugs resulted in synergistic increase in serotonin (5-HT) levels as compared to their effect per se. There was no change in the norepinephrine levels. The coadministration of piperine (2.5 mg/kg, i.p.), a bioavailability enhancing agent, with curcumin (20 and 40 mg/kg, i.p.) resulted in potentiation of pharmacological, biochemical, and neurochemical activities. CONCLUSION: The study provides evidences for mechanism-based antidepressant actions of curcumin. The coadministration of curcumin along with piperine may prove to be a useful and potent natural antidepressant approach in the management of depression.

I also found this over at

http://dmt.tribe.net/thread/8e36ad0d-daf8-...81-475bf39225c6

Curcumin has been identified as a powerful MAO-A inhibitor, at doses above 150 mg/kg

So it would seem that 10g of tumeric is enough to provide Aya like inhibition.

[Yeti101]

Very Interesting. I never noticed anything using dried turmeric in cooking. But the first time I ate a small bit of fresh root I got something from it - kind of stimulant. I always thought it was due to volatiles that are lost in the drying process.

[Gunter]

Curcumin has been identified as a powerful MAO-A inhibitor, at doses above 150 mg/kg

So it would seem that 10g of tumeric is enough to provide Aya like inhibition.

A common misconception is that the effect of harmaloids that makes oral DMT effective is MAO inhibition, this is still a hypothesis and it is unable to explain the effects of aya in totality.

What are the metabolites of DMT?

I believe the metabolization of tryptamines is complex.

I am not saying curcumin won't work, but it has limited bioavailibility.

It is reported as nontoxic in large amounts but perhaps due to the fact little of it is absorbed.

I wonder if the molecule could be severed into two isomeric portions and futher modified to taste.