shamanism and technology

[Hagakure]

was just having a chat with YT and we were discussing the mesa.

one thing we were discussing was how the mesa will change etc.

an intersting question is that of technology.

now these old shaman dont use much technology. but does that mean we shouldnt either?

i think it was torsten that mentioned something about Huichol Art that sprang to my mind when thinking about this question.

when westerners buy or make ethno art, they like it to look very organic. eathen tones etc. but when many of these tribes have access to bright synthetic colours they absolutely love them and use them prolifically.

take a look at this fantastic example

now does this translate back to shamanism?

are we more likely to favour the original methods used by shaman while those shaman themselves, with our resources, would make use of them in a very different way?

okay there are places where shamanistic rituals of a kind have sprung up through technology in the west - raves, doofs etc.

but when trying to bring the mesa etc to australia, how should we use our resources?

is technology taboo as it has less connection to the land?

is it beneficial as it can allow us to do things to give us greater connection to this universe?

[botanika]

Interesting post. My opinion is that technology is not taboo at all and in fact a completely core part of our makeup. I believe three basic things seperate humans from the rest of the animal world and I have mentioned them before on this forum: art, language and technology. Theres that triangle 3's thing again. Human beings rely completely on technology for survival, whether its a rock to hit an animal or a simple coconut cut in half to collect berries. If you dont agree, please send me information on human beings that DONT use some form of technology (or language and art for that matter). They dont exist.

I dont know many people that want to revert back to farming or fuedal systems or strict tribal cultures either. We are here poised in a cosmopolitan global world where we can choose from our histories treasure chest like never before and take our pick between the most mythical lore of the past and the most outrageous futurists dreams. I dont know if thats a good thing or a bad thing yet.

but when trying to bring the mesa etc to australia, how should we use our resources?

For beauty and meaning, not profit and power.

is technology taboo as it has less connection to the land?

is it beneficial as it can allow us to do things to give us greater connection to this universe?

Technology IS the connection to the land. Art is the connection to the beauty of the universe and language is our connection to each other.

Civilisation is our departure from it all.

I think some of the shamanic hunter gather societies had it on the money for a while: work only a few hours of the day, roaming different landscapes continually exploring the mind and nature, learning its rythmn's and cycles, generally living sustainable because they harvest what nature provides, not what society can provide, not settling for long enough to let the population get out of control or become disconnected with nature, obsessed with art and the pursuit of creativity and spirituality (and probably sex magick) in a way that values beauty rather than profit or popularity and an almost democritised shamanism. we can't be hunter gatherers anymore but with hope we are technopagans at the end of linear society!

[nabraxas]

technology is just another tool for us to use. it's how we use it that makes the difference.

also, as someone else said,

digital technology is based on silicon, so it's tied into the elements at a base level.

......no idea what that means

[egad]

I don't think technology is taboo at all! If anything i think technology and shamanism are only just begining to make much needed connections!

It is the unification of our ancient tribal/shamanic rituals with modern technologies that is taking us to the next step in human evolution. The idea that we could grow a traditional sacred entheogen for years in the earth, through organic means and then at the end of the day the experience we derrive from it is one of multidimensional expanded awareness brought about through unifying the earth/plant experience with our more modern day influenced set and setting thus bringing about in evolution in our own consciousness and the consciousness of the planet as a whole, is simply spectacular.

To experience the rememberance of your eternal self brought on by pushing triggers and buttons in a modern day context is monumentally mind blowing, at least to me.

I think if anything, in the near future we will see a massive prevalence/acceleration and expansion of the inclusion of modern technology with ancient shamanism, it's natural evolution.

[hebrew]

well i guess what do you mean by shamanism?

but personally i think it is about working with the plants and nature

i cant imagine doing shamanic work in the setting of a doof but that is just me.

for me it is all about learning from the plants and developing a relationship with them and nature.

i am not sure how technology fits in with it all, it seems to be that technology isnt really need for shamanic work.

when you say technology what exactly are you meaning? how are you plannign to incorporate it into the mesa if that is your method of working?

take it to the medicine and ask it, if you open yourself to listening to the plants they will teach you.

this is the way of a vegetalista.

[Hagakure]

yeah havent really thought in detail

was more a concept of what would top shaman be doing over here with our resources?

does the borrowing of shamnistic rituals in the west take a similar form as the use of organic dyes?

with tech im thinking anything electronic

coloured lights, brainwave machines, speakers emitting music

anything

in terms of most drug explorations, okay most external stuff can be distractions from essentially internal work

hence somepeople taking super doses in silent darkness etc

but the mesa is an interesting case due to the sheer level of external stuff.

many rituals, many objects etc

just wondering if stuff we have, that these shaman dont, would fit in in any way.

would one of those flashing wand things over here be ridiculed as bullshit and not authentic while over there the shaman would absolutely dig it?

i guess it is a matter of asking the plants

will be interesting to see the evolution of rituals through the west