Freedom of speech and artistic expression in australia

[parzival]

This is from my father who is a lawyer so its reliable info (i hope)

I've often heard people whine that we don't have legislation on free speech and such in aus, and we don't, not in writing. It falls under 'common law' and is assumed by the judge that these rights exist (which sounds sensible), the fact that it is not in writing can be exploited in some cases but ultimtely the law is on your side.

This may be well known, and it may not, thats why i posted

Edited July 11, 2006 by Parcifal

[Torsten]

Go to the Fil and literature classification website and have a look how many thousands of pieces of speech and art are prohibited to possess, import or sell in australia.... and then ask your dad how that compares with his statement.

I am not having a go at you. I am just wondering how anyone (especially a lawyer) can claim freedom of speech to exist in a country where censorship is rife.

[devance]

A freedom of the press is a necessary.

If not theres the feeling thats not all is not right.

If all not going right then should be reported.

A crude U.S. governmenat apparently thinks a spin is going reorder the planet.

Such crude outlook has them looked at as stupid fools.

Running out resources. money.

[parzival]

There is censorship in america where they have freedom of speech inscribed in the bill of rights, F.O.S. and censorship are two different things, censorship is a moral thing, child porn is not a freedom of speech matter but a moral matter for example

[occidentalis]

There is censorship in america where they have freedom of speech inscribed in the bill of rights, F.O.S. and censorship are two different things, censorship is a moral thing, child porn is not a freedom of speech matter but a moral matter for example

So do you think prohibiting TIHKAL is morally justifiable?

[puffingfish]

So do you think prohibiting TIHKAL is morally justifiable?

Please elaborate...are you talking about the book or the member?

[occidentalis]

Please elaborate...are you talking about the book or the member?

Hehe

the book - but actually it's PIHKAL. I'm sure it used to be tihkal?

PIHKAL - A CHEMICAL LOVE STORY © 1991 Publication (Paperback)

Classification REFUSED

Consumer Advice

Category Publication

Version

Duration n/a

Date of Classification 4 April 1992

Author ANNE & ALEXANDER SHULGIN

Publisher TRANSFORM PRESS

Production Company

Country of Origin USA

Applicant NSW

File Number LN920293

Classification Number L00209795925B

http://www.oflc.gov.au/special.html?n=46&a...p;record=136919

[Torsten]

Please consider that virtually all ethnobotany books are 'RC' refused classification, ie illegal to possess, sell or import. Any book that describes the ingestion of a drug is illegal. It does not matter whether this is a scientific text or anovel. And that's where the idiocy starts - we have thousands of novels on the shelf with various acts of murder and drug taking, but they are not censored, while books on ayahusca and shamanic tribes are illegal

Those ethnobotany books that are not on the OFLC database are only not there because they have not been referred for classification yet. All of them would not pass classification.

But that's not all. there is also censorship as part of the customs act. For example, it is prohibited to import any material that describes the use of an aphrodisiac. So any novel that mentions 'spanish fly' is in fact illegal. Ditto for any book that describes a murder. So where does this leave fiction writing? well, technically there is no difference between fiction or fact when it comes to media.

If the laws were enforced fairly and equally then they would no longer exist. Imagine if all murder mysteries got pulled off the shelf and off TV? Imagine any book that describes a criminal act such as murder, drug taking, fraud etc was removed from our media access? Do you think the sheeple would put up with that? No, even the apathetic australian population wouldn't. So, it is the selective application of these laws that allows them to continue to exist in an unfair and undemocratic context. A contect that is dominated by the morals of a vocal minority who make a lot of noise about drugs, sex and alternate lifestyles

[ergoamide]

Hehe

the book - but actually it's PIHKAL. I'm sure it used to be tihkal?

Actually they are both books, Pihkal was shulgin's first work and Tihkal was his second. Pihkal involves phenethylamines hence PIHKAL (Phenethylamines I Have Known And Loved) notice the acronym (thats the word right?) and TIHKAL (Tryptamines I Have Known And Loved).

[Torsten]

Actually they are both books

I think you missed the point. I think he meant that both were banned.

This case illustrates my point quite nicely. Two books of almost identical content and yet only one is banned. Does that make the other one legal? NO! Ideally all books should be classified before being sold or imported, but in reality only those referred to the OFLC by authorities and individuals will go through the process. That does not make the rest of them legal though.

[occidentalis]

I think you missed the point. I think he meant that both were banned.

LOL yep

[Pala]

What are the implications of:

PIHKAL - A CHEMICAL LOVE STORY © 1991 Publication (Paperback)

Classification REFUSED

?

I can't find a/t on the site that explains it.

[Torsten]

What are the implications of:

PIHKAL - A CHEMICAL LOVE STORY © 1991 Publication (Paperback)

Classification REFUSED

?

I can't find a/t on the site that explains it.

read my post 3 posts up. I've also written about this issue several times BEFORE.

eg HERE

t

[SaBReT00tH]

just lookat the laws against owning Nazi paraphernalia. That's directly censoring freedom of political speech.

[Evil Genius]

Hi Guys,

whoa, this is really scary. In Germany there are also many books on the Index but that´s mostly porn and nazi propaganda which doesn´t include historical books. Some Books about Mushroom Cultivation have also been put on the Index, which means no person under 18 is allowed to read or to buy them. We have about 150 Horror Movies that have been banned completely; mostly splatter movies. Lucio Fulci and this stuff. Almost every horror movie is getting censored and cut around here. To me, The Situation is not satisfying at all. A partial freedom of speech means nothing. If theres something the government wants to ban, there are many laws that are able to make it possible. If not, they make new laws. Our german BND was just convicted of bugging journalists in order to get the informations they needed. Under the false pretences of terroristical prevention, everything is possible around here. bye EG

Edited July 18, 2006 by Evil Genius

[Pala]

read my post 3 posts up. I've also written about this issue several times BEFORE.

eg HERE

t

Right, thanks. Wasn't sure (until I read that other post) what was the implication of being banned.

[puffingfish]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I was a bit concerned there for a second.

Not that that information isn't scary enough

[parzival]

NO i don't think the banning of TIHKAL is justified, the rights are there, but malleable. TIHKAL was probably seen as a moral issue by whoever 'made the move'. at the end of the day, however weak thier powers may be (which i guess all depends on how good your lawyer is) the rights are there.

[Torsten]

at the end of the day, however weak thier powers may be (which i guess all depends on how good your lawyer is) the rights are there.

multinational publishers and film distributors have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on single cases to overturn the OFLC rulings in court - and lost. So, if hundreds of thousands of dollars can't buy you a good lawyer, then what can?

Your suggestion that these laws aren't confirmed under case law and hence are apparently easily challenged by a 'good lawyer' is just silly. Rights don't exist unless you can access them. If it takes hundreds of thousands of dollars to *maybe* get these rights then for all intents and purposes they don't exist for the vast majority of australian citizens.

where do you come up with this stuff?

[Maturin]

I profess that I know little or next to nothing about the laws regarding books and censorship...but I'll tell my story...

About 12 years ago I ordered Oss & Oeric's "Psilocybin - Magic Mushroom Growers Guide" and Stamet's "Mushroom Cultivator" from a fringe American book company (it may have been Loompanics, I can't remember). About a month later, a big yellow envelope with an Australian Customs logo appeared in my letter box. Basically the letter said, under laws "blah blah" (can't remember, either) you are not allowed to have these books and customs have taken them. I was both annoyed and a bit scared (I was young), but what could I do?

I phoned Customs to ask some questions, but I could never get hold of the person they kept referring me to. Bummed out, I just thought there's nothing I can do about it. Then 6 months later I found a copy of Oss & Oeric's book in a bookshop in Adelaide...which I, of course, bought.

I just couldn't understand then, or now, how they could take my books...yet bookshops could sell it???

Only a week ago in town I saw a copy of Stamet's book in the largest bookshop. I have also seen PHIKAL for sale about 2-3 years ago...but apparently these books are banned???

I just don't know how it works...

[Torsten]

it is illegal to import, sell or possess these books, however, because there are so many prohibited books it is very difficult to police. hence, most imports/sales/possessions will go unnoticed.

however, if you are being raided for some other reason you can count on 'possession of illegal literature' to be added to your charges.

[Maturin]

Yeah, I figured that if a bookshop ordered a big shipment, Customs probably wouldn't bother checking them out as opposed to just the average joe.

It is all a bit confusing though...I guess those bookshops could be charged by police, if someone was to alert them to the fact? (not me!)

I wonder how the internet comes into this? Sure, the books are illegal...but what about websites like Shroomery.com? I assume if the site is hosted offshore, there is nothing they can do, but if they were hosted here, they could be shut down?

If you were unfortunate to be busted, and for some reason they found that you had visited such sites and the pages remained in your temporary cache...is that 'possession of illegal literature'. Is a webpage considered 'literature'?

[Torsten]

Yeah, I figured that if a bookshop ordered a big shipment, Customs probably wouldn't bother checking them out as opposed to just the average joe.

5 years ago only 3% of all shipping containers were checked by customs to any degree. Most of them would not be unpacked, so the chance of a shipping container actually being checked piece by piece is probably very very close to zero.

Mail imports are checked a fair bit. Probably about 10-30% for book size items.

I order a lot of books from amazon and have never had a single one of these opened, so I think that might be something to keep in mind for those contemplating buying such books.

It is all a bit confusing though...I guess those bookshops could be charged by police, if someone was to alert them to the fact? (not me!)

Yes, they can be charged, and some have been. Polyester books has had legal cases due to this before. Other importers have too.

I wonder how the internet comes into this? Sure, the books are illegal...but what about websites like Shroomery.com? I assume if the site is hosted offshore, there is nothing they can do, but if they were hosted here, they could be shut down?

The internet is subject to the same controls and theoretically any material that is prohibited import as print is also prohibited import as digital format. The laws as they exist at the moment could be used AT ANY TIME to make the import of digital formats of most porn and drug sites illegal. We have senator Brian Harradine to thank for that.

However, we all know what would happen if porn was suddenly locked out of australia.

With drug matters it's a different story, and as filtering software becomes more powerful this may well turn out to be an option an ultra conservative government (such as a liberals coalition with 'family first') might implement wihtout having to pass any further laws.

If you were unfortunate to be busted, and for some reason they found that you had visited such sites and the pages remained in your temporary cache...is that 'possession of illegal literature'. Is a webpage considered 'literature'?

To be illegal it has to be classified by the OFLC. I don't think you can get into trouble for possessing offensive material that has not gone through the OFLC. Your material may however be seized and not returned. For webpages this is obviously no big deal.

There is no case law about any of this YET as far as I know. I would presume that the first cases will be on solid moral ground such as pedophilia materials, meth production, suicide instructions, etc, but really once there is case law there is no turning back. Bottom line is that ISPs are responsible for what they import.

[Maturin]

Oh yeah, I remember hearing about Polyester now that you mention it. And also, I too have heard that they rarely check stuff from Amazon.

Thanks for the info Torsten

[MrBumpy]

This topic has always interested me, a few years back a foaf found Phikal on the shelves of one of the chain book stores at Indooroopilly shopping centre ( Angus and Robertson if memory serves correctly), and not knowing that it was actually illegal, bought it.

Now, a scenario I've been wondering about, my foaf still has his receipt, if he went back and kicked up a stink over them selling him an illegal book, I wonder how the store would handle it. I'd also love to see what sort of story today tonight or ACA would turn out if they were informed about it.

-bumpy