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PD.

Mystery Trich.

Question

I scored this cutting today and i was wondering if anyone could please tell me what it is. Everything about it seemed "fatter" than a regular T. pach.

I put it next to a pedro tip for comparison.

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Probably a cordobensis by the looks

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The both look like pachanoi to me, just some variation on a single theme.

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Passive, I agree with foolsbreathe, but with a caveat. T. cordobensis first of all is a completely inaccurate and unrecognized name and appears to come from a plant in my collection that I received under the name from NMCR. I'd call it a mislabel for sure, but my repeating this name along with photos I have spread has made it stick. But this T. cordobensis appears to be one of two main variations of T. scopulicola, the extremely short spined one that is quite common in the States, and a longer spined version which appears to be somewhat common in Australia and which I saw in large stands there myself. This longer spined T. scopulicola appears to go by the name of "Lance" in Australia and is indistinguishable from the original NMCR T. cordobensis in my collection and also with other long spined form in my collection of different origins but which came with the name T. scopulicola and two ID#s FR991 & RIV S1438/7. The FR refers to Friedrich Ritter, the second number I haven't taken the time to look into (but suggestions are welcome). One of my future hopes is to get a copy of Ritter's Kakteen in Südamerika, a translation to English preferably. I thought someone was working on that in Australia, but I may be wrong.

I'll look to take some new photos of all these plants for a future photo essay.

~Michael~

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A blue scop with longer (though short) darker spines? How does one tell it apart from some Peruvian pachanoi?

The skin and texture and spine color look a lot like T pachanoi Kimnach, but without the 2.5 cm central spines.

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Hi.

i don´t know why but the first thing that comes in my mind about the left clone is "short spine peruvianus". I think i once saw a pic inlcuding that label which was looking almost the same. I really like these two clones.

I encluded a pic of a similar clone that might also be a SCOP but i´m not sure if it´s Ritters Variant.Is this the same as the one shown on the right?

bye eg

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Edited by Evil Genius

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Eg, that pic of yours is what I would consider a scop too. The original cut in question bears very little resemblance to any scop ive seen. More short peru/pach/macro than scop. Gessuz this line is getting moer and more blurred every day... Its rediculous!!!!!!!! Lets just give them new assigned numbers and then correlate like groups later down the track. Obviously the destinction between species and hybrids is far wand widely open to interpretation. Start new numbers/names and when we know more than look for "like" types. I would expect the skin to be more "open pored/rough skin" to be a scop.

So MS.... The cordo saga stems from a misslable... how many people know that?? maybe we should pass that info on.....

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This Cordo thing i find is quite different to the short spine scop

and its very different to all my pachanoi

frankly its out on its own in my collection

i dont know what to do with it

it gets to be a massive cactus, and flowers freely

ive seen it under several names

the best i can say of its alk content is 'unreliable'

im pretty sure this is shaman bob's strain ob EB01

its also one i saw analysed from WA and extracts yielded nothing from 16kg

ive also collected it from nth coast nsw on sevaral occassioins

all planst growing next to one another no appear identical

i was sent one by T sT tantra that appears very similar but the jury is out on synonymity

i also have multipel s/s scopx pach hybrids to comapre and so far they are not similar

i have many cordo x bridgesii seedlings but they are too small to jusdge properly yet

as for your cactus

im not so certain we should jump to conclusions - just yet

plant them let them get to at leats 1.5m over several seasosn and see if they still look that different

ill tel you from experience that clones can radicaly shift their morphology depending on growing conditions and cycles

the pachanoi of mine show similarities

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the scarring is snail damage - bastards :ana::BANGHEAD2:

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Edited by Rev

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can you guys help me out i bought two trich pachanoi

but they look completely different

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too young to know

ask again in 2 years...

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The glaucous nature of the trich in question at the start of this thread makes me think something macrogonoid, since there are no bridgesii like qualities.

Archaea's mention of the Kimnach clone is interesting, as far as form goes it seems spot-on, but I've never seen a glaucous Kimnach.

I wonder if there are short spine variants of the macrogonis forms? I've never seen a long spine scop, though. All of the ones I have seen have been VERY short spine. (I am on the weird side of the pond, though) The shortest spined in my trich collection is the scop, to be accurate. The other remarkable thing about scop is that it behaves in a bizzare fashion when it comes to the skin. It gets the black rot like a bridgesii, is rough to the touch like no other, is pale green in full sun/ dark green in shade, and it is NEVER glaucous.

Scops are just so damn different, from a western hemi point of view.

Take these comments for what they are, speculative anecdotal ramblings...

:)

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Yeah the cutting is off one big freakin cactus, next time i go to the garden i got it from i wont forget the camera :slap:

From what i could see ther was four, maybe more variations of T. pach like cacti. There was so many trichs in the one area that are all around 20 years old i didnt know what to look at. I might head there next Friday to get some info off the grower(i didnt meet him the other day) as to what he has growing, if he knows.

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Iv'e heard the jury is out on the cordobensis alkaloid content. I collected mine in SA about 13 years back, I'm sure it fits into the category that we are discussing here. It also has a very good alkaloid profile, stronger than any pachanoi in my collection, only beaten by a bridge that I hold in high esteem above all others!

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The glaucous nature of the trich in question at the start of this thread makes me think something macrogonoid, since there are no bridgesii like qualities.

There is plenty of blue on these T.bridgesii

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I should also mention that the skin on the cutting in question is fairly rough, similar to that of a scop.

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Glaucescence often is exagerated by lighting. The tip of that original plant is all wrong for a short spined T. peruvianus type or a T. macrogonus sort. There is very little folding above the areole (considered the v-notch when further down the column), something extremely prominant on both T. peru and T. macro, but not so on T. scop, standard T. pach (Backeberg clone), or T. bridgsii. The spines on this plant also don't give it up to be either T. pach or mac/perus either. The color, size, and arrangement are all quite fitting for the longer spined varient of T. scopulicola. It is rather large of course, and this might cause it to reflect certain enlarged features, but I bet if grown in a little more tropical or temperate climate with a little less sun (cause I can tell this was grown in direct and fairly constant sunlight) it will fit the long spined T. scopulicola.

Passive, does the skin of that plant have a very smooth waxy texture like T. pachanoi, or does it have a slightly grainy rough skin. Scratch with your fingernail on both that one and the T. pachanoi for a comparison and get back to us.

Tommorow I will get out with my camera for a few new shots of the T. scop plants.

Alright, it's time for bed, I've been online so long it's starting to hurt by brain.

~Michael~

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Opps, well I see you answered my question about skin texture in the meantime. I'm convinced.

So now, does this plant (the large clipping in question) appear to have the blue frosting (glaucescence) in normal non-glaring light? Or does the photo exagerate the frosting?

~Michael~

...ugh, my head!

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Yeah the cutting is very frosted in normal light compared to other trichs i have

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I've never seen a glaucous Kimnach.

Kinach in my garden, cutting via SacredSucculents' RPL.

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Yeah the cutting is very frosted in normal light compared to other trichs i have

Alright, another day's begun and the wife ain't around...paradise!

Anyhow, I'm going to be very curious to see how this frosted scop-like plant will grow when under less bright condition. Basically you can pretty much tell by the diameter size that it was grown in full sun. I wonder if the frosting serves as a light reflector of sorts and if when it is grown under less sunny conditions the frosting will decline. Can you tell us something about where and how it was grown before you got it and what sort of environment you plan on growing it in now? And of course, I want updates latter on once it grows out a bit.

~Michael~

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Well it doesnt look like this will be settled until i go back to the garden and get some pics and ask alot of questions. Like i said there was heaps of different sorts of Trichs all growing outdoor, some had partial shade from a large euc. but the majority were in the open.

stay tuned

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Well i got back out to the garden today and i asked the owner what this cacti was, as i didnt get to meet him the first visit.

He said that he has always just called it a "super san pedro" and he has had the strain around twenty years.

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Beautiful plants

My vote goes for it being a scopulicola form, though I can understand why some might lean towards pachanoid.

Don't see that it fits with any other species complex at all.

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damn. thats one sweet garden.

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its also one i saw analysed from WA and extracts yielded nothing from 16kg

This result was recently confirmed by an independent analyst by bioassay with around 500mL liquid extract.

Dunno why he didn't just ask me first :slap::P

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Prize for most pedro in one locality ever? :blink::blink::blink:

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