folias

>..basically bullshit..almost every national park has severe damage to all mature adult trees.. you mean people have been damaging *all* mature trees? like taking bits of bark off them? I've only heard of that in Victoria, with the stand of trees considered a "weed" what I've seen is at well known places, I mean really touristy places, are some real idiots hacking away at trees and leaving behind a real mess. but still, there are many other trees in these locations. so you've been walking around these national parks recently and checking this out? this is news to me. I hear some hype about this, but it mostly comes from one person and I'm not sure if it is accurate as it just seems like overblown disinformation designed to get people worked up. I did some recon work almost 10 years ago and concluded obutsifolia was very prevalent! I doubt harvesters could really dent the population more than wind, fire, thunderstorms and loggers, which is how most trees die. a lot of harvesters only take fallen trees too after thunderstorms. plus, a lot of these trees are in places where humans cannot easily get to. and hey, just because I am questioning your perspectives here and trying to communicate some of my own, doesn't mean I deserve to be threatened and accused. I would only condone the cutting down of trees when they are at the very end of their lifespan, basically about to fall over. Better to go with ones that are already fallen over, which is really common in some areas. better yet, grow your own, which is what many people are doing thankfully. Julian.

>Its obtusifolia that's in real trouble in the wild, what are you basing this information upon? Obutsifolia is an extremely common tree. There are places where loggers are cutting down as many in a day as any tryptamine harvesters could possibly harvest in a year. And still, there are places where this tree is thriving, and many of these places it is really hard for humans to go to. The biggest threat to obtusifolia is fire, but paradoxically, this also brings them to sprout anew. Julian.

Met a couple from Malawi (in Africa) who are going! been trying to tell as many people who are coming from O/S about this as I can! so we can hope for some interesting O/S people for sure. :-)

A grower in South Africa brought to my attention that Acacia Phlebophylla is listed in this document as a weed! http://www.weeds.org.au/docs/intro_flora_australia.pdf this is what he wrote to me: "I've been pursuing the ecological aspects of A. phlebophylla and came across the following .pdf on the internet that claims that it has jumped its endemic range and has succeeded in establishing itself elsewhere in Australia. The publication also claims it has established itself in at least one country outside Australia. This information is presented briefly as the code terms Nn next to its name on page 15 of the document. As a result of these "facts" and the work of this group of researchers, a red flag has been raised for this species and hence has been declared a potentially invasive weed. However, no details are given as to where in Australia or what other country it has become a problem. I suggest you contact the people at the Weed Management Unit in Adelaide to try and find out if they really have got their facts straight and to try and talk some sense in to their heads before they try and ban a very useful plant. Here are their contact details: CRC for Australian Weed Management, Waite Campus, University of Adelaide, PMB 1, Glen Osmond, SA 5064 Australia Telephone: (61) (08) 8303 6590 Fax: (61) (08) 8303 7311 Email: [email protected] www.weeds.crc.org.au

Absolutely. Ayahuasca drinking peoples all over the world always seem to be at odds with one another, especially in Amazonia where sorcery is widespread. But in the west, it is often a very political and quite petty arena. I myself feel relatively benign and non-political compared to the various chest beaters, gossipy and general negative propaganda and ideologies that the Santo Daime people call "The Bad News Post Office" It seems to me that many people are seeking a release from the ego from these medicines, so that many arch egotists are attracted to them. But, I'm not sure if Ayahuasca really does the trick, as it can tend to amplify the ego. Probably 8 grams of dried mushrooms can do a better job, but because there is no obvious cultural tradition to anchor the work with mushrooms, so it is not given as much credibility. There are so very few people doing the work with large doses of mushrooms and a prevalence of "wankers" who want to be seen to be doing the cool thing. Recently, however, I have met people who hold "free form" sessions with mushrooms - which are very effective. Thing is, it is so much easier to give importance to a structure or series of formulas and containers and feel better about that, as it often seems so more important and worthy to the ego, than transparency and direct living truth - which most seem scared of! Many are looking for this don juan character who has a whole roadmap of shamanic tradition all laid out, something very intellectual you can get your teeth into! Thing is about these indigenous ways, is that in places like the Congo, (worlds 2nd largest rainforrest) there are native traditions intact and they have *insane* plants there, some of which I am taking. But for most part, in the west, it is a big unknown, there is no intellectual brew haha about it. It is raw and real, and indeterminable by the western mind. And it is interesting you are talking about these greek traditions… I think people are scared what would happen if they did let go, that it would become some kind of violent orgy or the like. This is also a very freudian idea, that the ID or "lower" emotions would take us over. This is the idea that letting go into the emotional body itself is dangerous and destructive which maintains the repression, but for repressed white people, this is what they need to do in order to be liberated! (see the film "Mysteries of the Organism" for people going into Reichian therapy which engages this sort of let go and cathartic release) Satanists indulge in maintaining control through ritual, yet enacting an unleashment of repression in a way that does not do the trick, only to maintain and validate the repression and the ego's grip. But actually, to go into intelligent consciousness, part of that is actually working through and releasing repression of all sorts and coming clean with yourself. From my perspective, the most healing comes from accepting and letting go into the insanity, outside of the mind - whereas most want to maintain the mind in some form. Therefore, they in particular, often have a problem when their mental structures, traditions or whatever you want to call them, are not given pole position. This is why traditions are baloney, because that pole position is often the manifest problem, which prevents apriori intelligence and the working through of what is really on the table in a direct and human way. Julian.

Again I say the traditions are bollocks, culture is not your friend. Listen to the plants foremost, make contact with them and not the cultural baggage of dudes with juju! >will it be different if it comes from say acacia compared to the vine (even with purification etc)...is there an inherent energy in the molecule due to it's origins??? in a word: yes. >Just about anyone who has done a 2 week dieta with a 'traditional' curandero understands the difference diet (& attitude make). Sure, there is making the commitment to the plant and I'm not saying that is not ineffective. I encounter so many people so much of the time holding onto ideologies for no other reason than they cannot face their own cultural insecurities and go into the space nakedly. Western people are so in their heads - any kind of thought or structure just encourages them to maintain their systems of control and mental dominion. When the most essential healing often comes from fully letting go and into their own integrated intelligence. I work with a lot of people who have been so caught up in these systems and ideas of someone else being the guider, that they don't know how to find their own way through the states, as they are, and are therefore often kept immature and disempowered as little cash paying kiddies by these "shamans" Julian.

*tries to force splutter* Ayahuasca is a vine that grows in Amazonia and the rest of the world. It is not a tradition. It is what you want it to be. Seems to me, even most people who are working with it, miss the point altogether. Many years ago I met one of the elders who brought Ayahuasca to the west and he said to me, that unfortunately, the Ayahuasca scene is full of wankers! And I tend to agree with him! Julian.

Actually, he always said that, and said in one of his talks in LA in the eighties, that it was as hard to say that in heavy metal LA as it was in 60's Haight Ashbury. He also was quite straight up about himself. In one talk, he mentions Kathleen Harrison as his other half, and then said, some would say my only good half! A friend in Cape Town is releasing videos of TM talks on youtube, there are 6 more to come! Julian.

I'm glad that a few are understanding the complete difference between DMT from different sources. Some would be aware there is a species in Australia, called the Pious Armchair Gumnut (PAG), which is unfortunately rather common. such types are surprisingly homogenous, exceedingly precious, judgemental, egotistically and humourously political and petty, tending to be cagey, and at once gossipy and normally out of touch with reality, its variables and nature because of an overt theoretical and impractical nature. But this does not mean they are bad people, they have good sides too; you could certainly trust them with your chickens! (at least I think you could...) Sure, but that doesn't mean that modern day indigenous people do not drink ayahuasca in the way that I mentioned not all the time, I find the indigenous people to be often very casual when they give you ayahuasca, and they are more inclined to see that it is all in the cup. even santo daime people I have drunk with say that, that it is all in the medicine and not in what they do. the diet is a more mestizo thing, as the diet (in terms of the food element) is largely taking out of a lot of western element (sugar, salt, alcohol etc) And it is hard to find that. I met a guy who searches out indigenous tribes deep in the rainforrest and go and drink Ayahuasca with the old men who kept the old indigenous understanding alive. He said, they would go into the "dreamtime" and tell him the dreamtime stories of their people. Julian.

I didn't say that. I said "Someone needs to collate his talks into a compendium of his thinking and ideas. That book would make all previous human philosophy look like the big steaming pile almost all of it is!" There are few very thinkers in history with more sense and clarity than TM! Julian.

>but we too often write-off ritual because we do not understand what an expertly facilitated ceremony can be like; I've drunk with many who are considered the best in the world. But for me, the indigenous people (who often don't sing icaros) and those who minise interference, and truly respect the power of the plants, above the human ego - win out for me. I happen to believe the medicine is best left in the cup, and additional medicine performed by a curandero is fine by me, but don't believe it is necessary for effective medicinal work to occur. Too many people are coming to this work, seeking a saintly "Don Juan", seeking a craft, seeking an importance, something to hang their hat on. Something to make complex and twist their mind around. when the fact of it, is largely a whole bunch of dudes out of their integrity, seeking money, sex and power and fighting each other! Sure, there are exceptions, but they are the 2% or whatever it is. But the white people buy it, walking on their egg shells, because they *want* the structure and are afraid of what they will find outside of THAT. I'm not against Icaros, and can appreciate the craft, but too often they are not well sung! I would prefer to hear other music, like Solar Fields, which I find a lot more effective! This whole field, of giving ayahuasca to gringos has only existed for a few decades! at the very most! It is a mestizo concoction! I'm largely appalled by the preciousness, arrogance and pretention of the patriarchal Ayahuasca worldl so full of certainty and dogma! And they buy what the curanderos tell them, you need *us*, to protect you, from where the wild things are! Too often the white people who do this, tune their strings too tight! and are too uptight, lack humour and flexibility. >From my perspective, to truly get the most from ayahuasca, the "ritual" (I am not a fan of that word but i'll use it as proxy for the moment), and the knowledge of the one conducting the ritual, is more important than the drink itself. Yes, and "they" want you to buy that and want you to see them as a conductor. But then we turn to them, and their ego, and there is a distortion. I feel. and of course they will explain and diss how others go about giving ayahuasca, telling you of all the horrible things that could happen, if they were not there to look after and "protect" you from all the bad things that come up! I'm down with the supersticious talk - I just think people are insecure and afraid of getting real. Afraid of facing what is out there without their "training wheel shamans"! But the fact is, we must face what is out there, and inside us, and nobody is going to hold our hand or "guide" us, or make it all wonderful with ritual. It is hard work, and work we must essentially do alone if we are to become mature. Julian.

How many of you have actually listened to Terrence McKenna's talks? (which are readily available to download on the internet) It doesn't sound like many of you have.... All his books, his well known theories, are completely crap compared to his talks. Someone needs to collate his talks into a compendium of his thinking and ideas. That book would make all previous human philosophy look like the big steaming pile almost all of it is! Terrence McKenna detractors are mostly fools, idiots or both! The kind of people who, in previous lives, though the world was flat! http://www.conone.org/selfgods.html

Torsten, a few replies to some of your points. >Unlike smoked dmt [which should always be started at highest dose and worked backwards] well, I'm sure a lot of people diagree with you there. I know quite a few people who started with smoked DMT and then got so freaked out, they never returned to that place again. say with Changa, you can make friends with it and go deeper when you want to. I don't know of anyone who can maintain control on high dose! >Peganum has a dirty, toxic and sedative side effect, Not if you get a good batch! Good batches should feel like pure bliss. Bad batches are going to be like what you are talking about. Unfortunatley, most batches are kind of shit! >There are preparations that try and capture the middle ground, such as MAOI inhibited yopo snuffs and MAOI inhibited smoked dmt [changa]. They may suit some people. personally I feel they remove the uniqueness of smoked dmt, mess with the time compaction, and also don't provide much time to work with the experience. ie these preparations seem to enhance the entertainment aspect, but diminish the therapeutic aspects of the smoked vs oral extremes. Thing is that when you smoke DMT with Ayahuasca and herbs, there is an innate therapeutic effect, even if the intention of the individual is "recreational". And I agree with you re: ayahuasca, the whole idea of ritual is baloney. The indigenous people when they drink in Brazil just talk and sing and hang out. It is western people who want to be formal and have a masonic/satanic kind of ritual. When the brazilian shaman comes to the west, he will sing songs and it will be a more formal space for the gringos. The ritual is drinking the ayahuasca. Rather than having one guy sing his traditional songs, I feel it is better to play the extraordinary range or music that humantity creates. This works best I feel. At the end of the day, you are sitting up or sitting down, having an experience. It is only stupid white people who feel that some sort of "structure" is required so they don't have to let go of their mind structures and confront themselves! Julian.

Interested to know where this location is!

My first thought was that perhaps this document contains Phlebophylla as a weed *because* it contains DMT! As I could not help but note that many alkaloid rich Acacias are on that list. And it does look like a good list for researchers to take note of! Acacia Pycantha, Australia's flora emblem is also on that list! Funnily enough, I recently met a couple from Malawi, who said they extracted 0.3% DMT from Pycantha they found growing in Malawi! :-) Julian.

This is a very interesting link, as various sources communicate in some details about how Iboga is endangered in Gabon from intensive harvesting in the wild. http://eboka.info/index.php?topic=1370.0 Apparently, from a ten year old tree you can only get 500 grams of dry Iboga Root Bark! So it is going to take some forward thinking people to set up plantations in tropical places in the world, where it can grow well. And in 10-20 years that person is going to get a huge ROI! Julian.

go read "The Secret Life of Plants" by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird.

Great to see your phleb is flowering spunwhirlin! I heard that someone had a phleb growing in Ireland that was the same age! I gave some seeds to an Irish man at confest in 2001 who promised to take them to a gun gardener there, so I can only presume that is how it got there! :-)

Aboriginals did not need to do this, since there connection to the environment and land was already intimate and there sense of purpose was clear. So I personally think hallucinogens would have probably had more of a toxic effect to people of that frame of mind. What this aboriginal told me about his experiences much a very specific experience, which it sounds like all who are initiated experience. Something MUCH deeper than what most people experience with Ayahuasca or even smoked DMT. Don't forget that aboriginal people were known to "fly", they were into sorcery, telepathy is well reported among aboriginal people. None of this is toxic to me, and I think is actually is pretty cool.

Interesting to read this thread after six years. Since then, well, I've heard a lot more from different people all over Australia. I've encountered two caucasion people who have been given to smoke what sounds like some sort of shredded root bark, by aboriginal elders - one from Sydney and one from WA. The word Acacia or Wattle wasn't used or told to them at all, but they described to me very psychoactive effects lasting around the same amount of time as a typical DMT experience. Also, I met an old guy from up Weipa way, in far north queensland. I asked him about the sacred use of wattles up there, as I had heard the sap was used. And he told me, "put it this way, if you have sacred traditional knowledge of something, why would you just willy nilly tell everyone about it?" Oh, and I met another aboriginal man, and after I did a bit of name dropping, he told me had taken Acacia in a ceremonial context on top of a mountain, and described what sounded like an initiation experience. He told me that the reason that these ceremonies only occur at certain times of the year, is that the plants that activate the wattle are only good to use at certain times of the year. The anecdotal evidence for me, was overwhelming in 2003, (this thread was started in 2006) and at this point, well, I take it for granted that aboriginal people took Acacia preparations, because to be honest, too many people (some I knew well) have told me that they have taken powerful psychoactive preparations given to them by aboriginals. Julian.

Recently, I smoked seven consecutive cones of potent mix from a high end addict, and it didn't really do anything. This is the thing about it... it doesn't DO THAT MUCH. It is like Cocaine without the warmth and rounded corners.

Probably the most addictive drug I am aware of. Many intelligent and conscious people have become highly addicted to this, when *everything else* has remained somewhat of a curious passtime. Much more addictive than meth or cocaine... it is up there with crack cocaine. I also believe it is plain bad for you. And the payoff's/returns on habitual use are minimal... it is just "rating pushing a button" land. A lot of psychedelic people stayed away from it, because psychedelics stop working for quite some days after doing it! But for the self destructive set - this stuff is real trouble.

>someones shopping for a russian bride ;) Actually, I'm considering making a documentary about russian/ukrainian women!

I might be idealising Russia here a bit... the place does have a *very* gritty underbelly or should I say, overbelly - but this does not undermine the romantic spirit of the women - which is what I am highlighting. Most of my experiences with Russian women have actually been in the west as well... Funnily enough, in that pdf Russia rates more highly than Switzerland. And the three baltic states, which are ex-soviet states, all come up in the top ten! Yes, for sure, there is the fucked and get fucked culture in Russia, with commodifcation occurring there in maybe a much grosser way than anywhere.... but what I'm saying, is that there is an internal culture in the women that is very strong - which I wanted to highlight - which places feminine values such as love and purity very highly and a romantic spirit is alive and well in that culture and indeed in most of eastern europe. Compared to the west, where we have "sex and the city" gals bemoaning the absence of romance... it is like chalk and cheese. >I think you are making a great many extremely broad generalisations and false assumptions here. This is the kind of things they say at universities to discourage students from having their own opinions and thoughts, and to stop you from getting to an essentially focussed viewpoint, which is a usefully true enough! This is an interesting site with some very perceptive writings which attempts to capture and interpret the internal culture of Russian women. http://russianwomenspeak.wordpress.com/ Julian.

Actually, it is the other way round... women are often MORE financially empowered. Russian women did not have a feminist movement, BUT they were working alongside men and considered equals to men in most areas since the communists came into power in 1917. For western women, however, feminism, almost means, being more like a man! Russian women cultivate womaniliness but are just as likely to be top scientists or managers than men! One friend reports his dad in the old soviet union going on a geological expedition to the north pole, just him and 12 other female geologists! (he apparently came back with herpes and his wife never forgave him!) Also, women outnumber men quite significantly! This has been the case since after world war II, when tens of millions of russian men died, making competition for males much more fierce - so in Russia, the culture provides very much for females who actually put in a great deal of effort. It goes on and on, I mean they didn't have witch burnings in Russia either... Russian people have a reputation for being cold, but it is just that they just don't force sentiment and I have found to be about the most warm hearted and authentic white people I have met. I've been in eastern europe a lot recently, and you will generally find a greater degree of purity, meaning and authenticity in your relations with people. Whereas, in the west, relations with people isn't considered to be that important it often seems. Of course, here, stereotypes and negatively tainted cultural imagery prevail - there is no way that in this culture, for example, you can really have any idea what Russia is like till you go there. Julian.