theobromos

Anxiety attacks can last until treatment, twelve hours would be possible.

The sidering oxidises easily and after toasting and storage may well be very different.

http://www.pjonline.com/Editorial/20040207...forum_khat.html Some pharmacists had a chat about khat. Interesting illnesses associated with the use.

I have eaten Silene and Lychnis, I would not want to try Agrostemma.

Agrostemma githago is the usual cockleweed in English, quite poisonous. Very beautiful. BUt the likelihood that it is this plant is low. Common names are useless for identification of plants especially across languages.

I am sorry if my views cause offence. But I will not apologise for my opinion. It is only an opinion. The single word that proves my view for me that Americans are gullible is "Bush". Prove me wrong by putting the bloke in jail for his crimes against humanity. Anything less is criminal neglect by all Americans. You are the only ones who can stop him. Preferably question both him and Rumsfeld naked with truncheons up their asses., I am not saying that all Americans are gullible, only that a greater portion of Americans are gullible than Europeans. We are naturally more suspicious, is this a good thing? Why is this in the Ethnobotany Forum? Because I am stoned out of my brains, I suppose.

Sorry, unreservedly. I have gone over the top. I could blame the drugs but it probably was the start of the hayfever season. I have my filter masks at hand now and should be a little better-tempered. I have been snotty in both senses of the word. Sorry again.

They didn't manage to gt their act together sufficiently to rip me off, they never answered my simple question about one of their products. Riesgo means "risk" in Spanish. Possibly his name should be "Tu Riesgo", your risk.

The evil thing Saddam did was to ask people to pay for his oil in euros. Daddy Bush didn't like that.

And also the chen xiang I mentioned in the Smoking Khat thread. Interesting stuff. $13.50 for 100g from friendly, in case you can't wait for it to grow.

Of course no offence, reville, I was just making a point that I am not bothered by apparently offensive opinions. Stonehenge, did you not read my posts above? I am not proud to be British. Mostly because the British government is helping that of America to destroy the peace of the world. If I were in Britain now I would be working against Tony Blair every way I could. I respect you, but don't you see I am only slurring the majority of Americans? That is only slighly over 150 million. The other 150 million I know to contain some of the most marvellous people I have had the pleasure to meet or encounter in the Internet. Respect, mon. But no respect for the childrapers and their assistants. My original statement was that Americans are "disposed" to be more gullible. What did you understand by this word? I apologised in the first sentence of this thread. I did not repeat my slur but in my rush forgot to add the "majority" there. I am sorry for that. Torsten, curry is the national dish of Britain, official. You can call me a curry-munching pom baldie if you want. (I had three feet of hair removed yesterday.) I have my own definition of racism that doesn't appear to be shared by anyone. "Being nasty to someone because of their race." Not politically correct, I just try to be correct. Mr Kratom, the crimes against humanity for which your government and its electorate has responsibility include; 1) supporting the imposition of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Yes, he was one of yours, an American recruit for the CIA. Everything he did was the fault of the US government. They didn't remove him very neatly considering how unpopular he was did they? 2) the murder of Allende and imposition of the government of Pinochet in Chile 3) Similar actions in the whole of South and Central America and Asia too numerous and depressing to recount which have destroyed democracy and in many places the whole culture of the country. 4) the training and funding of terrorism in all parts of the world (including the allowance of fundraising for terrorists in Northern Ireland where my Great Aunt lost her legs to a terrorist bomb). Who trained Bin Laden, when he was one of theirs? 5) internal repression and murder, in prisons, reservations and ghettos. Here I would include the supply and propagation of crack in black areas by the CIA. 6) the embargo of Cuba which stopped the only real experiment in Socialism ever attempted in a whole country. 7) The propagation of GMOs without proper testing and against the wishes of the majority. Just for the money. I feel like adding the Disney version of Hercules but sometimes even my black humour fails me. Britain has not been nice very often either. But we did at least have a philosophy of "winning hearts and minds". The American government philosophy appears to be "we do it and you should goddam like it because we are wonderful." And what about flip's implication that all smokers are beyond reason? Are all smokers unthinking animals? Smokism is not illegal, I suppose.

Great, I am getting a garden soon. Lets start a breeding programme for cathinone-free khat. Could it be legal in all countries?

I am rather pro-democracy and think it is a very bad thing. I have given up trying to find the report I remember, it was probably a silly metastudy anyway. But I am I being racist in saying that Germans respond better to ulcer placebos than blood-pressure placebos? And then suggesting that they are culturally or genetically inclined to better mental control of their stomachs than their circulation? http://www.freeindiamedia.com/book_review/...book_review.htm

The debate is here because green sap runs in my veins. Have I at any point said that all Americans are gulls? NO I think that many Americans, perhaps the majority, have suffered from their culture to the point where they are unable to make reasoned choices. Perhaps the failure of the democratic system in America is not your fault, Stonehenge and nabraxas. However, it is the fault of many American adults who have let things slide to the point where Bush can murder with impunity. As have many of his predecessors. Were they brought to justice? Yes, I know Bush got in because of his crooked family and did not win the vote. So why is he President? Because few people really care about democracy in America. Those who voted for the impossible third parties in the last US election are also responsible. Sins of omission. Is it difficult to work out that Bush getting to be President is a Very Bad Thing for the Environment? Fuck the Green Party, vote against the F(a)ustians. Some friends have done Bush's astrological chart and say that he will be dead or in prison before the end of the year. I hope that it will be Americans who achieve this. Before the whole world dies from the malice of the control freaks. [ 12. May 2004, 13:22: Message edited by: theobromos ]

I want an apology for reville's insult that I have made an assumption that I quite clearly have not. That really pisses me off.

I have just read Torsten's comments in the Smoking Khat thread. Is it racist to have views concerning general traits of a country? Americans are not a race. I don't understand "Please make sure that your statements refer to certain people", do you want me to insult someone in particular by calling them gullible? I don't believe that it is just the voters who are resposible for Bush being in power. There are sins of omission, too. I am not referring to anyone in particular but to a country of more than a quarter of a billion people. As statistically more gullible. I have nothing against Stonehenge and don't believe I am insulting him personally. If he doesn't like my views he is welcome to discuss them. If he wants to take exception to them, fine, but I won't change them until I have a reason. I don't understand how anyone could be proud of being American in these times. I am not proud to be British. Perhaps all the Americans here feel no connection with the general culture and politics of the USA but the country is the sum of its inhabitants. The culture and politics of the USA is based entirely on money and media control (and they have instituted the same filthy system in Japan and want to do the same in Iraq). The advert is their highest art form. [ 11. May 2004, 23:38: Message edited by: theobromos ]

gomaos, no, that would not be nice. Methcathinone is nastier than speed in my opinion. The agarofuran esters are probably the nice part of the khat. See separate "apology" thread for the other issues.

Another variable is the variety of khat, if it is that the agarofurans are responsible. According to the studies reviewed in the link below there a wide range of cathedulins, of which I would suggest that only the smaller would be likely to be easily vapourised. Perhaps just cathedulin E8, in which the agarofuran only has five alcohol groups (as opposed to the 9 of the medium-size alkaloids and the much more complex big alkaloids). An Ethiopian khat showed the presence of E8 but a Kenyan variety did not. http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/bulletin/bul..._3_page004.html

Wow, friendly that one I wouldn't have thought of. Someone has smoked celastrus? Well that is a piece of evidence that supports the hypotheses 4 and 5. Perhaps someone will be brave enough to make a comparison Good point about the formation of the dimer of cathinone by the sodium hydroxide treatment. The only way to test the activity of cathinone effectively would be to synthesise it, I suppose. Probably illegal in most parts so lets try to think our way through that. Stonehenge, sorry to be offensive but I do believe it. You mean libel not slander as I have written it not spoken it. It is a long time since I saw the report that showed that Americans had 45% placebo effect compared to 35% for Europeans and I have no memories that will help search for the paper. But the general gullibility of Americans cannot be controversial surely? I only have to say one word. On planets where legal: Never burn opium, chase it off foil or from an opium pipe if it is the real deal. If it is homemade and sugary (matique), then hotknife vapourisation will be the most effective. Never confuse this with wimpy vapourisers like that shean shayannnnee git makes.

Use the scar tissue as well if it appears to be as healthy as scar tissue should be.

And friendly need not feel any shame about his very fine hot-knifeable 5x powder. I love it and so does everyone else who has tried it. I mean everyone. A little alcohol always helps though.

Getting the water moving will make it heat more evenly and faster.

It is just scar tissue isn't it? Has more of those healthy phytoalexins. If it suffering from a fungal attack I would avoid it for a few years. If it is healthy I doubt any harm would come to any mythical creature that ate it, though some have harder stomachs than others.

Hotknife vapourisation is better, my dear friend.

Right, vapourising will test the "just smoke" hypothesis. For full scientific tests there should be a group who smoke pure cellulose. ¿Any volunteers? I love excess CO2 and too little CO2. Part of the reason for the breathing techniques of yoga is to produce high CO2 levels in the lungs and produce tranquillity and visions (or narcosis and hallucinations if you prefer ). Not all tests involving MJ would be invalidated, the stimulant effect could be measured by how long someone could stay awake after eating an ounce of skunk chocolate (where legal and available ). This is a technique often used in animal research but the results have to be interpreted very carefully. In this case all we could say is that there is a stimulant effect (or not) so validating 2,3 or 4 (or not). 6, the placebo effect, might still be valid if the stimulant effect is not felt by more than the control group of the guinea pigs who have only eaten the chocolate and are quite naturally rather excited. Control groups should be used for all tests. Freebasing by adding Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 would indeed make the vapours more likely to be of simple composition. However they would add to the CO2 produced. This could be avoided by very careful addition of NaOH instead. The agarofuran breakdown might be tested by acidifying the herb so that the alkaloids are less volatile but this is not perfect as local production of ammonia and other alkali compounds might release the alkaloid from its salt. As in the case of cocaine which can be smoked as the salt, though not as effective as freebase. While the cathinone is not easy to extract without decomposition the other parts of the herb could be separated and the agarofuran alkaloids and PEAS tested separately. Also some old herb that has lost its cathinone could be tested. Please don't confuse "extracting khat" with "extracting cathinone", they are not the same. John Barleycorn, do you not think opium is potent? Try hotknives errr, where legal, clearly. [ 08. May 2004, 22:28: Message edited by: theobromos ]