wophezuta

More so in terms of potency, perhaps some qualitative differences, but that's generally true of different batches of any product from the Lactuca species. Individual plants vary in potency, the timing of harvest affects potency, the enviromental conditions during growth, etc, all affect potency. Not sure, but I'm guessing this all results in individual plants having quite variable alkaloid profiles. If one had the time and will to do so, it might be possible to identify and selectively breed lines of plants that are superior and more uniform in activity. You'd have to really be into it. Hard to justify when there's so much of the stuff just there for the taking. Yes, I think the activity is due to lactucin and related alkaloids. There might be that one "magic" alkaloid in the lot that gives particulary good batches their zing. Or that one special prep that works very well. In my experience, oblongifolia more consistently produces "good" batches.

I though I might add a quick word on another specie that doesn't seem to be mentioned much. Through blatant experimentation over the years, I've found that Lactuca oblongifolia, syn. L. pulchella, L. tatatica, also known as blue wild lettuce, is more active than L. virosa or L. serriola. Blue wild lettuce grows in fairly large amounts in my area, more likely to be found in wetter soils than dry. I often find it in the Missouri River valley, or near the branches of the Platte rivers. I got interested when I studied up on Lactuca species, located some, and noticed that the latex is much more bitter than virosa or serriola. That led me to try it. For me, it seems to be consistently more active than the other two, which also grow in my area. For all three species, I found that the timing of harvest, whether latex or foliage, is important. It seems to be more active when is just going into the flower stage. Buds present, but flowers not open. The blue lettuce, at least in my area, flowers later in the year than the other two. I don't know if oblongifolia has ever manage to find it's way to Oz, but for those in the US who are into the lettuce thing, it's definitely worth a try. There are plenty of pictures and description online to help you ID.

I don't know if it's obtainable in Oz, but Lady's Slipper (cypripedium pubescens), a native orchid in the US, works pretty well for me. It works well for others as well, and unfortunately it's almost become extinct in the wild due to over harvesting. Best to find a source of cultivated varieties. A quick web search will provide you with some options. Hard to find sometimes, but it works better for me than other traditional herbs that listed in the thread so far.

I've had the opportunity to use kratom off and on for several years, jumped in very early when the real stuff became generally available in the US. Regarding withdrawal I've found that it can actually be fairly unpleasant. Probably not as nasty as WD from more potent opioids, but it can still be bitch. Mainly I had issues when I made the mistake of using it on a daily basis for extended periods. That is, more than one dose a day, for a couple of months. Yes, I was a bit of a lush.....combined with a friend in the import business who gave me heaps of the stuff for very cheap. I don't make that mistake anymore. The flu-like symptoms, insomnia, headaches, craving, and so forth were really bothersome for about 7-10 days, but the more troublesome effect was the worse depression I've ever had in my life. This tended to last about 3 weeks. I went through this 3 times. Yes, I'm slow learner. Now I have very strict rules regarding kratom usage. No one more than once a week, not more than one dose a day. If you have gotten into a daily routine with it, a wean is suggested.

An extremely interesting (to me) connection of incensole acetate to the transient receptor potential vanilloid 3 (TRPV3) system is discussed in the article listed below. Easily found with a web search. It may explain, as the investigators point out, why incense has been used in religious and meditative settings over the centuries. Most of the classic plant based psychoactives work on other receptor systems. TRPV3 activation probably has a different "feel" to it than the other receptors. Thanks for the info, MP, very interesting line of study. FASEB J. 2008 Aug;22(8):3024-34. doi: 10.1096/fj.07-101865. Epub 2008 May 20. Incensole acetate, an incense component, elicits psychoactivity by activating TRPV3 channels in the brain

Mindperformer, Is the clary wort you mentioned in your list the same as clary sage, salvia sclarea? This has been growing in my garden the last few years and the pre-flower buds and flowers are extremely aromatic. I enjoy the aroma, but my wife calls it "stink plant." If I handle the buds or flowers, my hands retain the aroma for the rest of the day, even with hand washing. I've thought about trying to make an absolute or alcochol tincture with it. I'm not sure if it will come back this summer as it's supposed to be a biennial or short lived perennial and this summer will be year 5. Just curious if this the same as the clary wort you mentioned. Thanks

Wow.....licorice seems to do it all. What system doesn't it work on? Amazing mix of properties.

Good advice on the SSRI/licorice combo. Not a great idea. There are also some other type of meds that can cause low potassium that one would probably best avoid in combination with licorice. This would include certain diuretics ("water pills"), some medicines used for asthma or COPD (beta-adrenergic agonist type drugs like bronchodilators, or theophylline) and aminoglycosides type antibiotics. If you're already taking one of these, adding licorice could tip the scale further. I have read that 1 of 5 patients admitted to hospitals in the US (not sure about Oz) have low potassium. Bottom line is moderation and be aware if you're already in a position of having low potassium. That being said, I find licorice much more interesting than I once did, Zen.

An interesting question that came to mind is whether one could co-administer an herb with a1-adrenoceptor antagonist action in order to reduce undesired adrenergic effects of the licorice, thus emphasizing the dopamine side of things.

I stand corrected on the potassium mechanism, Zen. You got me curious about the mood-based effects and so I did a bit of looking around on this lazy day. I do think you're probably right about the dopamine connection. In one animal study from the Indian Journal of Pharmacology, they gave mice glycyrrhizin and found it to be as effective as imipramine and fluoxetine as an antidepressant agent. Co-administration of p-chlorophenylalanine, which is an inhibitor of serotonin synthesis, did not alter the antidepressant effect. But sulpiride, which is a selective D2 receptor antagonist, and prazosin, which is an a1-adrenoceptor antagonist, did reduce the antidepressant effect. Which likely means the effect is a combination of adrenergic and dopaminergic effects, at least for the mice in the study. Could very well be a similar mechanism at work in humans. I've never noticed the effect, but maybe I need to eat a bit more licorice or try the root and tea, as you have. Next time I notice a sad looking mouse, I might toss some her way.... Evaluation of antidepressant-like activity of glycyrrhizin in mice Year : 2005 | Volume : 37 | Issue : 6 | Page : 390-394 Dinesh Dhingra, Amandeep Sharma India Journal of Pharmacology

The reason it can cause high blood pressure is that glycyrrhizin produces a dop in potassium levels which can also result in irregular heartbeat and in some cases, congestive heart failure. It is a dose related response, which means the more you eat, the more pronounced the effects. People over 40 years old are more prone to this. Per FDA info, 5 pieces a day for 2 weeks straight is enough to cause trouble. Best enjoyed in moderation. Interestingly, the city I live in here in the US Midwest has a store that specializes in licorice, and the stuff they import from Oz is considered some of the best. I love it. Just not everyday.

Sorry to hear this. My father fought cancer for over 3 years and we finally lost him. It was hard to see him go through it. I can't say I know exactly how you feel, but I have been down a similar path, and it was tough for my family as well as myself. My thoughts and prayers are with you, your mother-in-law, and your family, and all who are going through this situation