Entheogenesis Australis 06 - Spirit - Mind - Science - Sound

[Torsten]

elsee - I think that's a great idea. Maybe best if you put it into a separate thread as it might get missed here.

[RonnySimulacrum]

See the updated web page @ www.entheo.net

Edited May 3, 2006 by RonnySimulacrum

[RonnySimulacrum]

well the Email is back up now, thank god

[email protected]

Edited May 5, 2006 by RonnySimulacrum

[RonnySimulacrum]

Discussions

"Ancient Wisdom Returning -.Girls , Goddesses and Gaia…Women in the Ethnobotanical World"

This discussion group has been organised to provide a forum for the women in the Ethnobotany community, who may, due to the heavy preponderance of their masculine brethren had trouble connecting with other like-minded women plant workers.

Women often have some difficulties entering and participating in male dominated spaces such as this and this forum has been created to raise issues, share stories and create functional supportive networks with other women. I believe that women have a crucial role to play in the healing of the planetary body and should be supported in their desire to be of service.

Edited May 6, 2006 by RonnySimulacrum

[elsee appleseed]

if only i wore a bra to burn................

[RonnySimulacrum]

Bruce Fuhrer the fungi king is now 100% confirmed

[wandjina]

if only i wore a bra to burn................

indeed!

And one for the Ladies;

Discussions

"Ancient Wisdom Returning -.Girls , Goddesses and Gaia…Women in the Ethnobotanical World"

This discussion group has been organised to provide a forum for the women in the Ethnobotany community, who may, due to the heavy preponderance of their masculine brethren had trouble connecting with other like-minded women plant workers.

Women often have some difficulties entering and participating in male dominated spaces such as this and this forum has been created to raise issues, share stories and create functional supportive networks with other women. I believe that women have a crucial role to play in the healing of the planetary body and should be supported in their desire to be of service.

This talk sounds interesting...and i would like to take this opportunity to make a few comments re women in the ethnobotany community.

Whilst it is true that women interested in ethnobotany, myself included, may find it difficult to connect and communicate with like-minded women, largely due to the relatively small number of female plant workers...there is another force at work here that acts to stifle women expressing their knowledge, in being perceived and treated as equals.

Sorry to say it boys...but if I dont no one else will...but there's alot of sexism in the community.

I hear guys talking about the goddess...womens 'crucial role....in the healing of the planetary body..'...but so often its concieved of, and couched in, terms that engender separation.

Conceptualisations that perpetuate stereotypes about womens roles (and I'm also talking new age stereotypes here) , about women being fundamentally different from men, even when it is made to sound as if we are being honoured and even deified.

One of the main reasons women find it hard to enter and participate in the ethnobotany community is one and the same as why women find it hard to enter the upper echelons of science, politics and religion.

I won't go into the histry...i assume you've all read the da vinci code

On the one hand, we, and I mean women, go along with the status quo...we shy away from being assertive, from arguing...we fall back into outmoded ways of being...conventional notions of passive womanhood, even those of us who consider ourselves feminists in the 1970s sense, whatever that means.

Then there's motherhood, and looking after your partner...blah blah blah. 'Womens work'

So, yeah, women need to take responsibility for whether or not they speak up, be actively involved, be prepared to defend their views and challenge those they disagree with...even risk being seen as a bitch. Funny how men are often seen as strong willed or assertive...but women are seen as bitches, or as hard...cold, when they discuss/debate.

On these forums, and elsewhere...over and over again, women in the community are frequently referred to as 'so-and-sos lady', or girlfriend...its like they have no identity except as an appendage to whoever...and I can think of a few who are at least as interested and knowledgeable as their partners...but some of them too shy away from getting more deeply involved.

I think this is also because some people just dont feel the need to get involved...they see what it can be like here and they don't want a bar of it. Perhaps they feel they dont need to prove anything...to busy doing to waffle on the web. waffle, waffle, waffle

Anyhoo, some women in the community act like, and are regarded as, no more than 'supportive girlfriends'...not as particpants or full-fledged members of the community. Not with their own independant interests and knowledges.

So on the one hand, women shy away from the lime light because they are afraid of the energy of all these blokes...an energy that is at times competitive and aggressive...there is a definate 'exclusive boys club' vibe at times...and its so bloody infantile.

I can tell you, from personal experience...that even some of the nicest of you make unconscious assumptions...and adjust behaviour accordingly, when talking plants with a woman.

At the Sydney meets, on several occassions...I was excluded from discussions...don't get me wrong...it was quite subtle, not in your face rude...nevertheless...it was blatantly obvious that the assumption was made by a few guys that i did not know things...that i could not contribute...that I was not as informed or knowledgable as they were...that because I'm a woman I wouldnt fully appreciate, understand or be able to express an informed opinion.

well, if ever there was an equal opportunity occupation/lifestyle it is shamanism...and I really get tired of implicitly patronising vibes...and some people lack awareness of this.

They outright deny it...well, I say they're in SPADES...Shadow Projection And DEnial Syndrome.

Its a widespread condition...and some of you are so sick you're thinking I'm just a petty and

annoying, wingeing chick right now, and can neither recognise nor own the fact that, more often than not...you have trouble seeing women, except in exceptional circumstnces, as, for instance:

powerful shamans, teachers, leaders or experts.

Its so easy to see men as these things...but its more challenging seeing women this way beyond the 'exceptions' ... i know, because i do this too. hard not to generalise.

The programming is good...deeply embedded and disguised as 'normal'.

I don't expect anyone to admit their mysogynistic tendencies or secret prejudices here...many of you who have partners have probably waxed lyrical on equality, on the goddess, on feminity...the 'inner woman'

ad nauseam...and no doubt you've had obliteratingly powerful 'feminine' experiences, and times where you really do see your partner, your friends girlfriend, your mother, whatevr...as an equal and worthy of the same respect you show and feel towards your mates.

But old habits die hard...and they're sneaky little buggers that ofen defy detection and masquerade as the way things 'really are'.

The day to day reality is that if you walk into a room of people...lets say at EGA...and there's x men and y women...there's certain assumptions that you make...that we all make.

I know, because I make them too...I am sexist too...and also just the pragmatic realisation that chances are

more men than women will understand my passion, and will be as seriously commited as I am...that's just the numbers...but then...on the other hand...it is also seductively easy to be unconscious of ones shifting standards...to hold onto, even feed, our habitual assumptions and just ignore the secret knowing that we lack integrity in some of our interactions , that sometimes we are not treating fairly, or truly accepting and embracing a fellow human being...perhaps even a being that may be a magnitude more interesting and

powerful than one would like to believe.

Maybe this is the real issue here...if the genie is let out of the bottle...they'll be no getting it back in.

But its too late...

I advise you get on board, and take a look at your fellow travellers and companions.

I'm not saying all guys in the community are mysogynists, or sexists or ignorant, far from it...we all have our prejudices...but being treated differently because of your gender really does get tiresome.

As everyone knows...being ignored is annoying, and down right rude...listening is often more important than being heard. Especially listening to those who do not usually engage in seemingly competitive discourse.

I am not saying that men and women are exactly the same...Blind Freddy can see we're not...that is not my argument.

My 'issue' concerns fairness, being treated, no, regarded, understood, as equals regardless of our differences...and the same goes for age, sexual preference, cultural heritage, relgious or spiritual flavour.

There's too much heirarchical bullshit that goes on in this community...from being rude to newbies...to the ignorance and tacit dismissal of its female members.

I'm sorry to have to say it again, but there's just this icky patriarchal goop that floats around

here sometimes...even in the above post re the discussion...I sense a patronising residue.

We all have a crucial role to play, and should all be supported in our desire to be of (preferably more than lip-)service...maybe its just the whole 'be of service' thing...maybe i'm just hung up on how that sounds...but my gut says no. A Freudian slip?

The best of intentions...but something else stirs below the surface.

I dont think this workshop should necessarily be just 'for the ladies' (and i am addressing everyone here)...it should be for everyone. Its not just a 'ladies' or 'womens' issue..its a human issue.

Sure...i understand some women may feel intimidated by the preponderance of male energy...and I'm not against womens groups per se...more, I understand that some women may want/need this kind of space to feel safe and supported...also, I know i'm keen to meet other female plant workers...but i still feel there's a separativeness engendered here.

I'd like to suggest that, firstly, those women who feel scared should throw caution to the wind and

just get in there...ignore the boys club mentality...attempt to transcend it.

Plenty of guys also find meeting other ethnobots face to face intimidating....we're all in the same boat.

Secondly...if some of you more 'blokey' fellas could try and be a little more conscious of some of the outmoded and sexist baggage you're lugging, and inadvertantly flinging around, it would really be appreciated.

For aussie dudes most of you are in touch with your 'yin', which is great, ... be a man and come clean with yourself about your assumptions, and how you act on them....make a space for those whose voices may not be as strong, but whose knowledge may be well worth a considered and unbiased hearing...

[RonnySimulacrum]

Thanks for your post wandjina, really appreciated it, I hope you can come to ega, it would be good to meet you.

Edited May 6, 2006 by RonnySimulacrum

[Being]

Wandjina,

I feel as though there are many levels to this idea of a discussion about women in ethnobotany.. from all the conferences i've been to around the world and in Aus, you're lucky to actually have a female speaker, let alone a dedicated discussion on this subject, so i'm in full support of this 'experiment' should we say?..

Whether or not it should be exclusively for female participation is another matter though... in one sense it would be really good to have a sharing from the men on this issue also.. hmm see i was just about to write "because they are the ones perpetuating this division in the community".. but now i think, are they? As you've mentioned you see these same tendencies in yourself, we're all responsible for this..

as far as i can see from the last five or so years i've been involved in this community, the women just aren't stepping up and having their voice heard, this is part of the reason i'm stepping up to give a talk this year at EGA, because it frustrates me that lots hasn't been said, from a female perspective, and the greater community is poorer for this and not as hmm 'fertile' ^_^ as it could be for new growth.

truly how i see this community is part of a larger movement of people on the edge of and even at the forefront of consciousness in the larger human society.. almost an acceleration of a greater, slower transformation already occurring in consciousness. So i think this is an issue which really Wants to be resolved, because one the fundamentals of the psychedelic experience is a dissolving of boundaries and generalised definitions, and the unfortunate programming we have all been exposed to and still run out of habit is in direct conflict with this fundamental of an experience we all share. This discussion is a good step in that direction, so it would be good to have both sex's input from that perspective.

On the other hand, it would be good to just hear the women, you know? So much hasn't been said, because the chance has never been there to really go deeply into all that is a woman's experience in the psychedelic space, and input from how men feel about women's psychedelic experience etc is a distraction from the real information that's intended to be shared...

ha ha just as i'm writing this, on the tv is video hits and the host is talking about the movement in video clips of men dressed as women to make a statement about the lack of recognition for females in the music industry.. and now they are showing a new clip which is an example of this "pass this on" by "the knife"... good clip!

lol and something else related that i saw today was a thread on Oztrance called would you let your girlfriend do you up the ass? where a guy is describing reading FHM

"so flicking between pages one particular article caught my eye. well not so much the article but the picture of a man on all fours in front of a woman brandishing a plastic dildo that looked like one of those jars you get colored sands in when your on holiday in grade 3. i knew this was worth at least a minute of my life so i read on, giving me an indication of the new fad sweeping popular male culture..

i find this shit fascinating. for years i've watched the demasculinisation of the male populace with glee. these pseudo macho motherfuckers clinging feebly to an ideal that like other neanderthal concepts such as racism and organised religion, is slowly dying.

we are becoming one sex.

i stared at this page and realised the implications of the image and the accompanying text. this article is in a mainstream publication read by the male target market, designed to promote or rather, 'report' kinky sex designed exclusively for male gratification, and the roles are completely reversed. i almost fell off my chair. this is the first hit on the final nail in the coffin of a male dominated society, because ultimately it has always been a reflection of the sex act. once these clearly defined roles are disolved completely, all disparity between genders in society will vanish, albeit slowly.

so basically the more of these ignorant fucks get fucked up the ass the closer we get to a civilised society; if you follow my logic."

^_^

So basically, you know i do share your experience and largely agree with everything you've said, from my perspective the way to resolve this is for us women to stand up and be heard, be more active and involved, along with some friendly nudges (such as this thread..? ) for the guys to get their shit together and choose not the infantile regressive modes of relation.

Edited May 7, 2006 by Being

[RonnySimulacrum]

Ok well I will have more site pics up soon, but I just wonted to jump on and let you all know that the main room has a wood fire and 2 Gas heaters As we all Know last yes was very cold, and as you will see the space is a vast improvement on last year. We are in for so really warm fun times

[Being]

yum! that looks perfect, the whole venue is looking perfect actually.. can't wait to see some more, especially the dancefloor!

[elsee appleseed]

HHhmmm, all very well said..........thanks for opening the discussion well in advance of the ega gathering.

When it comes to sexism weather real or percieved I think it often boils down to the individuals life experiences all round. There will probably always be more males at EGA just like there is almost always more males on a trance dancefloor. I personally have never felt intimidated or unheard (maybe coz Ive not got much to say as Im very much a fresh learner and my ears are there to listen)

When discussing experiences relating to ethno-plants Ive felt my input has been equally recognised and respected; and i dont feel compelled to give thanks for that , It's something that I expect and therefor not debated or questioned.

For me the term Shaman conjures images of man yet the term Healer makes me feel connected to woman and the deep history of herbal lore, midwifery and 'magic'.

Im sure in the world there are far more men growing the Yang-expansive herbs and more women cultivating the Yin-contractive herbs that relate to health and healing rather than psychadelic experience and growth, but I could be wrong?

If at a conference such as EGA there happens to be a male or two who are expressing vibes of inequality Im sure that carries on with them in their daily patterns not just this community. ( Unfortunate spiritual juveniles who are self sabbotaging their true human capacity to give and receive abundant energy and love.)

Although I felt it came from a genuine place I have to say I cringed just a little at your post regarding the womens lecture Ronny, it made me feel like its place at the conference was to pacify the women and that it was somehow needed to make us feel welcome and accepted.........I already feel welcome and that the support shown to this event and community has been met with nothing but respect.

But I see this kind of "secret womens business" as a special opportunity for the coming together of women to express, share and manifest at a higher level the sacred femine energy that when magnified by intentional gatherings increases the healing potential and growth of not only those woman present but all other women and men and creatures, critters, plants and beings and the mother earth herself. (you know it spreads and blows far on the wind!)

As happens when men intentionally gather together to raise masculine energy to a higher power for the purpose of bonding,sharing,and healing ,not that Im aware of men coming together for that reason often enough...?

Iv'e probably fluffed off the core reason for these posts so I think I'll sign off for now, but I truely think that if Bruce was a Betty that the men would be just as keen to participate in the workshop because ultimately its all about the shrooms, no matter what gender the shroom-guru happens to be..........................

And yes Its a great thing to have a more balanced program of presenters we just need the balance in numbers to be there for that to be possible,

Hooray for EGA and Girls and Boys equally............I for one dont want us to morph into hermaphradites to smooth out inequality!

[RonnySimulacrum]

Although I felt it came from a genuine place I have to say I cringed just a little at your post regarding the womens lecture Ronny, it made me feel like its place at the conference was to pacify the women and that it was somehow needed to make us feel welcome and accepted.........I already feel welcome and that the support shown to this event and community has been met with nothing but respect.

Thanks very much for your post elsee appleseed, and you are right, I probably did go about this the wrong way, live and learn. My motivation for asking Margaret to lead the discussion was purely so that the Woman would have a good chance to bond. Some of the most brilliant, creative and energetic individual’s I have meet in the Plant scene have been woman. I just thought, for good or for bad, it would be great to get a little bite of time to develop and work with ideas more relating to that space. I am very sorry if I have offended anyone for thinking in such a way.

Edited May 7, 2006 by RonnySimulacrum

[RonnySimulacrum]

EGA06 Site Pictures

Part of the main complex

The undercover area joined to the main complex

The market area.

The UFO

On the deck of one of the Cabins

[RonnySimulacrum]

Inside one of the Cabins

Bush land

Pool Area

Temple space

Well i love the site and all it has to offer, just imagine all the fun we can have. Really hope you can join us.

[elsee appleseed]

Thanks for your reply Ronny,

Im sure that you know that I know that you know that we all know that you and the word offensive just dont work together! Far from it....I think it's great that the lecture is being offered but I guess that we all have different reasons for welcoming it.......either way it will be met with thanks;

but I hope that if there are women present who are feeling under valued or a little bit missed in the sea of men that the way to rectify that is to be more present amongst the men and the conversations, workshops at hand rather than less.

OOHHh its all a bit much for me this late at night...........or in the mornings..........or when Im eating.......or....

[foolsbreath]

WOW!

I love to see women on this forum. Wether you like it or not, you have a slightly different perspective on things than men, and you bring these perspectives to every aspect of life.

You see things more Holistically than men and factor in implications that a man would never see coming!

It can make for a great discussion!, and a challenging argument

I have always held one woman in awe (among others), Maria Sabina, one of the great shamans of this world

Doña María may be gone, but her spirit and her wisdom still remain

[wandjina]

some great posts

and, Ronny, no hard feelings. As is evident in my reply, I did feel offended by what I perceived as a 'patronising residue' in the post...but hey, my reasons for feeling that way stem from much deeper wells.

More, some of the men I love the most in this world occassionally revert to sexist stereotypes, and relate to me as if I am not a friend in the same way their 'mates' are....but I don't hold it against them. It may frustrate me for a time, but it doesn't keep me up at night.

One of my dearest friends, whom I regard as a brother, came and visited recently, and he had something to say that I thought was interesting:

'For many men, accepting women as truly equal is one of the last and hardest things.'

By this he meant not one of the last things in life, but one of the last hurdles a western man transcends when you do what we do.I would add that this is equally true for many women.

However, I am a little dissapointed by what seems to be the attitude that, although, on the one hand, I am being agreed with, there is also the implication that sexism exists more in the 'eye of the beholder'. And in one sense it does (try telling that to impoverished women in the developing world).

Fair enough, perhaps my life experiences, and maladaptation to some of them, has facilitated the creation of realities in which I am treated unfairly so that i can work through blockages... but overall I'd rate my interaction with men as more functional than many of my relationships with women.

In fact, more often than not I'll feel more comfortable and accepted in a group of guys than in a group of women. I find men easier to relate to, and communicate with, on many levels.

I was raised in a politically radical household, with no strong/dominant male figure, and until I left highschool never experienced overt sexism.

So really, being treated differently because of my gender still comes as a surprise to me most of the time, it is not something I expect when entering a social situation, rather, it never ceases to catch me unawares.

I assumed when I first started getting involved in the ethnobot scene that sexism wouldn't be an issue, assuming that anyone who practiced what they preached (in this context) couldn't possibly be prejudiced...and I was quite dissapointed when i found that this wasn't the case.

We all revert to outmoded 'types'...we don't all live the life and way of being of our revelations...and that's OK.

And not!

In many cirlces that embrace spirituality, there really seems to be this attitude that if something annoys you, or doesn't seem fair to you, or if you speak strongly against something, or if you disagree or seem 'upset' in any way...then this is negative, or bad or something. You are not evolved...etc etc I say we should be able to let it out!

We (ie ethnobots) like to see ourselves as different because we are not affiliated with any organised religion or belief system, but I see many features of such structures in the community...and I'm not necessarily saying this is a bad thing. Its a modern-western-human thing....and I'm sure we'll move beyond it eventually...hopefully

I remember when the dalai lama came to sydney a few years ago, during question time a woman stood up and asked why it was that there were virtually no women in positions of prestige or authority in the religion (relative to men). His reply was dismissive (in the nicest possible way) and basically revolved around the 'problem' being the womans perspective and misunderstanding...not the patriarchal heirarchy of organised Buddhism.

Now this is a man whose disciplined spiritual training and capacity for compassion dwarves what many of us have achieved....alternatively, one may dismiss him as 'old hat'...as indoctrinated by his religion, blinded by dogma...not really as on to it as we are.

The point I'm trying to make is that no matter how spiritually evolved we beleive ourselves to be, in our day to day lives we all have our dogmas, religious or otherwise. What we are remains contigent on myriad factors and influences, not the least... our lived experiences to date. This isn't a bad thing.

Yet no matter where you go, or what people beleive or not believe...there's always those who are convinced they've figured it out...the way things really are...and cannot see their idiosyncracy...why do some people divorce where and who they have been from who they are? Its a package IMO.

I used to think that if people did alot of meditation, or yoga or took alot of psychedelics, that this would necessarily lead to them being kind, non-judgemental....basically enlightened...but its not that simple. Diversity appears to be the key...

Anyhoo...

We all have our prejudices, we all have our unique way of seeing and experienceing the world and eachother, based in large part in life experiences.

Life experiences can influence us in positive and negative ways, and they make us unique...they make us yearn for some things, to balance some things, to minimise this and maximise that...always searching for balance, healing...wholeness.

What we do to get there, the journey, is just as important as the destination.

Someones chosen journey, based on a 'reaction' to, say, childhood 'x'...may lead them to any number of activities and adventures, some that may have profound consequences.

We could think about civil rights...what was it about certain people that they became activists, decided to challenge the status quo?

My point is, if we live through unfair circumstances in our childhoods, quite often we may want to resolve that unfairness as adults, soemtimes in a broader socio-cultural context.

I didn't experience sexism in my formative years, quite the opposite...but there were other unfairnesses...and I think that, in addition to innate altruism (sometimes shrouded in my bullshit...and, yes, we all have stinky shit! ) this spurs me to challenge inequity in many forms. I'm trying to change my reality inside and out...

Just because my desire to challenge what I see and experience as unfair comes from 'personal stuff'...does that render it invalid or less 'real'?

One could argue that the desire to change things, broadly, comes from the need to change oneself...in large part in responce to certain circumstances...circumstances that encouraged one to look within.

Or one could cling to notions of objectivity, that, in a simple sense, the truth is out there and that one can have a better grasp of it than others who mistake their personal issues with the way things 'really are'.

Its not a clear cut distinction...the boundaries are often arbitrary and blurred.

Whilst I hold that there are truths, that there is a 'destination', that what is happening is undeniably real and drawing us in at ever increasing speeds...I think it is also the case that no one ever eradicates the influence of their past experiences in this life, and possibly in others.

Sure, we can transform them...release them...metamorphise them etc etc...but they continue to have a bearing on who we are...we are the sum of our parts.

This means that sometimes we may continue to see things through our personal lenses...even when it seems like we are most certainly not.

We do not always bring back 100% of those experiences, those moments, those eternities....none of us is 'perfect'.

...if none of us is perfect, and we all still 'revert' occassionally to 'habit'...and these 'imperfections' lead us to do 'x' or 'y' to move beyond these ruts...which could conceivably help not just ourselves but others in their exploration of similar territory...then why should there be this tendency in many spiritual 'paths' to pathologise these aspects of self?

To pathologise the challenging of perceived norms. But hey, everything is perceived!

My perception and experience of sexism, and the fact that it sometimes annoys me, may just reveal my own insecurities and 'issues'...but I know for a fact that other women in the community have had similar experiences, including one who pmd me (and you should post!) who felt especially ignored at last years EGA.

Let me get one thing straight...I'm no delicate little flower...I have a big personality and many men find me imposing energetically and physically. I talk alot, and it is not often i feel excluded or ignored. In fact, I'd say the opposite is true....but it dissapoints me that, for example, after a sydney meet someone posted about the day...listing all the members names in attendance and how great it was to meet them etc.

It felt good to be included in that list, as 'one of the guys'....but the other two women in attendance only got an after mention as so-and-sos 'lady'. Clearly they were not seen as participants or real members of the group.

But many other women aren't as loud and assertive as I can be (which isn't to say that I'm not also a wimp)...and they find it more difficult to speak up. One 'girlfriend' said to me that she really wanted to participate more, but didn't want to have to be 'like the guys' to be accepted and heard...and there's something in that.

There is a competitive element that affects how not only women, but how many guys feel too.

Then there's this kinda hard edged 'get with the program' vibe, that sees itself as not pandering to peoples insecurites (fair enough), but on the flip side can be a little harsh, uncompassionate and may occassionally lead to unintentional exclusion.

So I don't just speak for myself, I (perhaps arrogantly) assume to speak for those who are too scared to, or just can't be bothered.

I can relate to this feeling scared, to being worried about expressing your opinion for fear of being judged...it can be hard to find your voice, and challenging to be the uncensored you.

I guess I'm saying that I would like to see more gentleness, more care, beyond the 'inner circles'...all scenes are potentially snobby, cliquey and elitist....this happens everywhere, and I think we all need to try and be more aware of it.

But hey, again, we could reduce everything I've said to really being about my issues...and perhaps it all is...but we could say the same thing about what anyone else says...that people only challenge and argue for or against things because they have something personal invested....no matter how altruistic or selfless the intention.

Personally I believe, deep down, that altruism is innate...but often it takes certain kinds of life experiences to go inside...deep deep inside....and often these are expereinces of cruelty, unfairness, abuse.

That these may be the trigger for challenging inequity should not mean that these perceptions are treated as 'only' perceptions...that someone may not be talking about something that is very real for many others (even aknowledging the illusory nature of it all).

I know that some women in the community are annoyed, frustrated and angry at the way they are sometimes regarded and treated by members of longer standing (men and women)...we should not silence these feelings, or pathologise them as related more to personal, internal disputes than to 'real' situations.

This just makes it harder for some people to express their views, because in some sense it seems to be saying that its not OK to feel excluded or ignored, its not OK to be 'weak'...that its all in your head and you should just get over it.

Being shitted by sexism and other inequity may be a part of 'the illusion'....but it doesn't mean we can't tackle it with gentle firmess. I think we need to make it OK for everyone to express frustrations and anger, and not label and cork 'negative' perceptions.

Edited May 9, 2006 by wandjina

[domide]

Wow, wandjina, i dont know where to start. I can agree with you assuming that sexism wouldn't be an issue in the ethnobotany community and being slightly dissapointed. I've been involved in the meetings since i was 16 and have been intimidated by the ratio of men to women. The majority of members have been very supporting and definatly have never taken my gender as negative. However a few people here and there have really offended me in the way they assume that i have no knowledge in ethnobotany due to my gender/age.

women in the community are frequently referred to as 'so-and-sos lady', or girlfriend...its like they have no identity except as an appendage to whoever...

This has happened to me at least three times - both male friends were new to ethnobotany and were treated with far more respect than I was.

One other interesting thing I have noticed is the competitiveness between some (very few) of the guys..who has the most amount of x plants, who has most knowledge in x subject, who has consumed the most amount of x substance. The dick measuring contests are never ending and they really irk me because they conflict the nature of the meetings, to learn and to teach others.

I guess this is a factor coupled with my extreme shyness, that has always prevented me from getting fully committed in the community. I don't want to come of as somebody who blames men for everything - there have been many more guys who have supported me and made me feel so welcome here. However, there definatly appears to be a problem. I think the womens lecture will be good starting place, especially if we get to hear the opinions of some men.

[domide]

Beautiful photos btw, Ronnie . The place looks magical. Counting the days down now. Does anybody have any idea how long it takes to get from avalon to the site? May be renting a hire car if cash persists.

[wandjina]

contentious issues aside ...looks like I may be able to make it to EGA, as I have been very kindly, and generously been offerred a lift! :D ...but I have some reservations, and am not sure if coming along is a good idea.

It basically revolves around bringing my 5 year old daughter along.

Ideally, I'd like to go solo, but being a sole parent with little support (ex-partner on the other side of planet, not very accomodating grandparents as far as babysitting goes)....there's little chance of attending on my own...and I'm a little worried about how this might pan out.

As those who've met my daughter know, she's a bag of beans...a very energetic, 'tactile' and articulate child, who is go go go!

I'm not sure how this would be received at EGA...its not like I have a house-husband to entertain her whilst i attend a presentation/workshop etc

And the truth is, I do want to have space beyond being mum evry single moment over those few days...does that sound selfish? Is that selfish?

Anyhoo, with the above in mind...perhaps if I do decide to accept this lift and come along, would anyone be interested in, say, trading for a little babysitting...day time of course?

I can't offer cash, but I can offer, a good back rub (i'm not a masseuse, but have recieved informal training), or a small piece of my art, or for students, editing and proof-reading of essays and lab papers (undergrad level).

So yeah, whadya reakon?

[foolsbreath]

If I were to come, I'd have to bring the family, I have the same reservations, Who else is in this boat, could be some scope for a bit of day care action at EGA?

[wandjina]

great idea FB...perhaps a few other peeps aren't sure about attending because of family obligations?

No offence to the non-breeders...but you really have to have kids to know how challenging it can be, and how valuable time to yourself becomes!

Maybe a little late for this year, but if EGA expands (and i'm assuming it is)...could be a very very good idea...I'll put my hand up as a potential carer...perhaps we (parents) could take turns supervising and entertaining the kids? Makes sense to me, and the kids would like it too

[RonnySimulacrum]

I love having children around; we have organized face panting and a children fire twilling workshop knowing that there may well be children around.

Children under the Age of 16 are free.

However it would also not be appropriate to have kids in the cabins and at manny of the workshops and best if family’s camped. Also parents would have to be responsible for there own children and EGA may not be the most appropriate space for them be.

EGA is not for people in there twenties, it is for all ages, and children would love the venue.

Any other children’s workshops or child minding co op would be welcomed

Edited May 11, 2006 by RonnySimulacrum

[RonnySimulacrum]