What are your spiritual/religious views?

[qualia]

now i know you're trolling lol

[nothinghead]

But i believe in Jesus Christ and what he represented how he loved everyone

and how he mentored people into starting groups dedicated to helping others [...] He was not about hierarchies he was

about equality sharing and most of all grace

the best observation i've read on the potential of christianity doesn't put the emphasis on love, but on hierarchy:

"Christianity, too, when it first began, was dangerous to the established order. It did not inspire the poor, the slaves, with the desire for power and the goods of this world—quite the opposite; but it gave them the feeling of an inner value which put them on the same level as or higher than the rich, and that was enough to place the social hierarchy in danger." It's from Simone Weil's Oppression and Liberty, if anyone's interested.

[Leaves]

As Jesus said, he created his religion for the 'lost lambs of Israel' (for the Jews). He created it for the Jews because of the years of programming the one who calls himself high priest ordered upon them.

[Optimystic]

yeah christianity is about some voice promising to take land away from one people and give it to some chosen fucks

not allowing the construction of sky scrapers, and divding us by tongue and other forms of abrahamism..

it was basically bow down to me or to go hell, the type of god we'd now attribute to satan

but i guess we were more animal like in those days, and jesus came in the new testament and started to rock the banks

it was a total personality shift, from father to son, and so I think it was right after this gnostic fucker took some shrooms eh

he went around with prophets telling ppl he came to bring the sword between father and son, mother and daughter, and proceeded

to shake up the banks, in essence ,he began a movement that led to a new world order, well at least in that small corner of the world...

then those fuckers took up swords cause they found out there were brown ppl living all over the world who had alot of Gold

and they preceded to rape and pillage them and destroyed their humanity in the attempt to convert them all to worship

their loving racist god... the one who tested faith by asking a man to kill his own son...

son of a bitch, that is a fucked up religion man... its only a little better than islam

as Santos Bonacci put it, in his vid 'Know Thyself', the book was well written, with the purpose of enlightening the wise

but to enslave fools... and theres no shortage of fools on those televangelist channels

now watch these if you want to laugh

 

 

Laughing, now that is spiritual

if you want to help make your nation more christian like

well um,

I reckon those vids might indicate what you will have to look forward to!

but still, if im gonna judge you, its gonna be based on your character

not what you tell me you believe.. cause you prove what you believe generally by your actions

but ultimately its most important between you and your inner self and it doesn't matter so much

what I think about your belief structure unless ya wanna act out some sort of pain or ego on meh...

much <3

Edited August 17, 2013 by Spine Collector

[Leaves]

The history of mankind is completely backwards. Our brains operate at only a fraction of the speed it did thousands of years ago, we forgot how to operate the 'super advanced technology' that is the Earth, while at the same time trying to pull matter to pieces to try and understand with the mind what our feeling have known all along.

Compassion and tolerance for all religions and beliefs will be of great help to all of us

Edited August 17, 2013 by Leaves

[Optimystic]

I can read just about any religion and tolerate the religion,

but what I find nearly impossible sometimes is tolerating the product of religion

particularly when they choose to judge me as a person but also I have sort of an intonlerance to other problems which

I view as social issues

But I do want to move that directions where it seems like we're all in a sports arena together hearing a concert

rather than being preached to by a shiny headed bald man in a spensive suit with a perfect knot in his hand made italian tie!

You can find good examples of good people in most religious groups, but you can find pretty much anything else too

the way I look at social problems is, that if we avoid confronting them, they'll never be fixed

and who wants to leave that kind of eternity for the next generation?

but I live in a place where ppl say "don't talk politics or religion if you want to get business done"...

it's still, "seek first to understand"

personally I don't think peace and love movements are all that natural,

peace and love certainly are but one thing is for sure is that light always casts a shadow

we each have to wrestle with our shadow but for me its important not to forget thats a part of me

ultimately, i'd rather the whole world agree on one fake religion, than for everyone to be right

we'd be much better off just agreeing with one another I guess

and maybe from there we could achieve a higher expression of existence or some shit

one thing that will never ever ever happen, is the world will never agree one on of the three

abrahamic novels... theres just not a place for extra special races in a united world imo...

Edited August 17, 2013 by Spine Collector

[Leaves]

I know what you mean To avoid detection lies have to transform continuously, but the truth remains forever in the human soul. Love is a strong indicator of truth.

[newageshaman]

holy cow there's some diversity here which is pretty awesome in my opinion guess ill put my 2 cents in then. To start off i was born in a catholic family who weren't to bad just expected you to be honest and basically treat people as you like to be treated. Then we moved out of our country town to a much bigger town and i was enrolled in a catholic school and began absolutely hating the whole religion so out of annoyance rather than any other reason i started saying i was a satanist (just the way to pass religious education ) and i even went as far as buying a satanic bible to "seal the deal" lol.

After that i got over satanism and started reading some new age books on witchcraft and paganism (specifically wicca) which sort of annoyed me cause at that stage i was trying to get away from all these religions with rules on how to act. Which brings us too now, were im happy to learn about any religion (even my least favorite Christianity) and take the good points out of it and just apply those to my everyday life without feeling the need to say im a christian or im a pagan blah blah

[Dreamwalker.]

i have been following these post's for a while ...a lot of neat stuff.....i've been reluctant to get involved......cause its bound to be a rant...so your've been warned :- ) ......I don't see that we can ever move on from "social problems' Why do people have to group? identifing themselfs as this faith or that.........."faith" says it all really ......beleiving in something...even when you have no proof.......even when deep inside you know better.......Father Christmas....is real to alot of us...pre 5 years of age.....sooner or later we realise its bull shirt..........a weird hybrid from my ancesters mushroom cult and coke a colas marketing.......we identify with our sub-culture or community.......look how focus/ritualised Muslism's or othothdox jews can be.....but we are western......so anything goes......we can ritualise like Johova's or be wild and free ...surfing belief systems.....i started on father Christmas....procressed to Cristianity..........by purbety..........transidental medition........diverageing to occultism..........active dreaming/austral projection........followed by taoism..after reading the "Tao of Physics' and the "tao of winne the poo".....both good reads.....spent some time meditating (vipassina)...translates to 'insight meditation'...mountain Tai monestries ...Goinka centres.......vipassina is like ...ceasing of all attachment............just cognition.........hard to just drift on the wind ....observing the ripple on a still pond.....takes a lot of focus.............you get climp'es of reality..........which is hard to recall when you return to normal funtion...our default mode......I once beleived in reincarnation..........now I try to beleive in nothing (something of a contradiction)..........I think if you have a preconceived idea of reality ...then won't those belief systems... prejudice your perspective..or vision of reality...how can you know something..........until its NOW?......i'd rather see things as they are ...not as I might want them to be......We live in one fucked up world...a corrupt system that is becoming increasingly obvious even to the real block head conservatives...as a system that is managed by a handful of crimal elitest.......call them banksters...politicians...corporates...we are just the peasents ...fodder for a handful of pychopaths.........and like the geese in my pond...we huddle together...so pimeval in our behaviour...that even in the smallest of group we will create a hierarchy...the meanist bustard always dominates.....the 2nd question a stranger asks you...."and what do you do?"....are you a doctor or do you clean tolites.....religions are so much about control.....we don't have democracy........we just have the 2 party kingship.........same master ...2 different names.........our media/propaganda suckers us in ever time.. people will actual argue over centre left centre right......take the head of our empire ...usa....what is the difference between them and nazi germany?.......both have concentration camps...torture....mass killing of innocent people (drones/petro wars)....mass spying on all of us.....its a long and almost endless list of crimes against humanity......real demorcacy is when i can go online and vote on any and all issues...when we are all MP's......when we have a real consitution protecting basic human rights, freedoms, and our dignity......and protection against mis information from mass media.............such a day dream huh?............it will never happen........and we can't blame those pathological elitess........we the peasents continue to vote the pric's in.........it will never happen because we are homo sapian's..........hierarchy is in our DNA..............how can we escape our programing?.............we are the ape that dreams...........................................................................................................................of being God..............

[Optimystic]

Well that was a bit of a rant! but appreciated by yours truly

that last bit about democracy was so true.. we have a representative democracy, whereas in a direct democracy people would actually have a say in every issue and broken campaign promises would be beside the point... but I think ultimately we have to change the way we elect ppl, which options are available to us? and the only way we can do this is move towards one of the many form of Meritocracy... Capitalism and Socialism are infinitely manipulable.. its the greatest divide and conquer con job of all time... and yet ppl are under so much social pressure to take proverbial sides I can't help but forgive... I care not what you call the name of the game or name of the system if you are to put a man of earnest moral character in charge, then I think we'll end up with good leadership... ordo ab chao (forgive me if thats bad english.. sounds good in my hed)

I also agree with what you say about believing in nothing... and that is not a contradiction, you express that you understand fullness... from there we each take our own perspective.. I use that as a place to create from... I don't view myself as "owning" anything, but more like a temporary custodian... I am particualy repulsed by the christian/abrahamic view that we're here to be the master of or dominant over nature, when in reality, few are, most not... not that we all don't have some obvious power over some aspects but we really never will have control of nature as we are a part of it, and its forever a part of us... nor can we save the earth, even that in most pompous cases, is the ego which is more interested in its own habitat rather than making the world clean for everyone but Carlin could say that more eloquently than I did haha

I surfed alot of belief systems and simillarly, I have just settled on making my own belief system... its my own twisted zany form of illuminism, because Im so in tune with that perspective, however I am not 10th degree quality eh... but I did figure some things out, some things you really have to go to the brink of madness to ever understand, and well... I just took it the way I wanted to and make it the way I will...

The TRUE secrets about life, are the ones waiting to be discovered about ourselves... afterall, everything only exists in the perception..

so I think the so called answers lie in figuring out what this mind really is... and in nothingness, I learn more than in speculation and language.
and I think its funny, most of us, we went to help so many ppl, but no one is ready to see until they are ready to see! See, I have to use the word see cause its the best word available in the english language to get that message across.. but its just a word! Don't be fooled!

The secret is to know how to gnow,

apotheosis

;)

Edited August 19, 2013 by Spine Collector

[Optimystic]

 

[nothinghead]

^ does it get any better after the first couple of minutes? what a depressingly decrepit mind, worn out by american culture, probably. edit: for some kind of constructiveness. he doesn't make any sense. first he's talking about how people are scared of things, but he's describing things that are real threats (to varying degrees). i've personally known people to die fairly young from at least one of the things he mentions. then he basically says we shouldn't meddle in nature because we've fucked things up doing that. but we've also managed to do some good (or, what i'd consider good anyway) meddling in nature, so by his logic we could just as well always meddle with nature (the language in itself is producing a weird dichotomy there, by the way). after that he starts talking about extinctions having happened mostly not by human fault - well, obviously, since the anthropocene has only been going for a tiny fraction of the time that there's been life on earth, i don't think saying 'we've made some mistakes, so fuck it, lets just let what happens, happen from here on in' is a well thought through "solution". couldn't watch anymore after that haha.

re: xtanity, spine collector: what i like about what the quote implies is that at some point christianity (before the convoluted and rigid rules that you mention became dominant) was subversive because it taught that the poor people, the vast majority, didn't need the trinkets and culture of the rich. i see that as being anti-materialist (not in the philosophical sense, in the sense of not feeling the need to have the fanciest shiny/branded crap surrounding your life) and that is something we could really do with more of today, obv.

i agree with you very much about having enough of ingenuine people. i've been around my share of 'all-loving' hippies who get the (very proverbial, very passive aggressive) knives out as soon as something doesn't go their way, or if they feel a share of their massive amounts of privilege being eroded in some small way. and more generally just witnessed the subdued competitivism and dehumanising treatment that goes on so very quietly in supposedly enlightened (self-described, of course) circles. I'm not suggesting that all of any group is like that, btw, in fact my experience of it has been pretty localised, but once you get to know ugly tendencies well, you unfortunately start seeing them more often than you did before.

Edited August 19, 2013 by raketemensch

[Optimystic]

no actually it doesn't get any better lol

I guess you can say we americans have been machine gun tattered from both of the proverbial sides

so its easy for me to laugh at ingenuine people, and most particularly, ingenuine naturistas (that would be nudists who wear clothes) but I would have to say that last part you said rings true @ worn out by american culture.. I can't deny that in the least bit.... the majority of my friends are plants... just sayin

in response to your previous post about christianity.. I think christianity started as a secret society, which evolved into a society with secrets... I would have joined back in thoses daze, if I was in the right place and the right race... that wholesome gnostic story makes sense.. .but I think its unfair to equate original christianity, with that mixed up jumbled work known as "King James"... um , thats a mistransliteration! I think the book itself evolved from one which emphasized love, exploration of the sciences and mystery, to an unrecognizable collection of stories about judgement and dogma..

But yes I don't see how we would have gotten through the atrocity of human history and early human behavior, had it not been for the empowerment brought to average men through some of the books that went around... and yes I think in the truest form the story was about a small group of people sticking together, and taking on what was the establishment in those times, the church... I think its just important not to ignore all of the other cultures which existed around the world either, whose history books just didnt' happen to end up on the publishers best selling lists because they are in some little corner of the world, that men have deemed "The Holy Land"... ugh

but hey, here we are today, with the power of the internet at our fingertips... less controllable than ever! and yet we are so quick (generally speaking) to run to get our fix of daily propaganda... but anyways

i'd rather laugh at ingenuine people, maybe spend a few moments imagining I can send some peace over to those who might end up in the line of fire today... Carlin does go on to make that point, who in the world can think they can save the planet, when we haven't even figured out how to treat one another... .

I know, I'm a dreamer... but i'm not the only one

Edited August 19, 2013 by Spine Collector

[hamma]

"That which is real cannot be threatened.

Nothing unreal exists.

Therein lies the Peace of God"

"And now in all your doings be you blessed.

God turns to you for your help to save the world.

Teacher of God, His thanks He offers you.

And all the world stands silent in the grace You bring from Him.

You are the Son He Loves

And it is given you to be the means Through which His Voice is heard around the world.
To close all things of time; to end the sight of all things visable; and to undo All things that change.

Through you is ushered in A World unseen, unheard, yet truly there.

Holy are you, and in your light the world Reflects your holiness, for you are not alone and friendless.

I give thanks for you.

And join your efforts on behalf of God, Knowing they are on my behalf as well.

And for all those who walk to God with me.

AMEN"

A course in Miracles

[Dreamwalker.]

'Why are we here?......................PLASTIC!'

Damn it.....I knew the truth was out there..................

that guy had me in hesterics.......................but I don't agree entirely with the anti-enviromentalist part.............even though its really funny........and I will probably watch the rest of them.............my heart is with those who live in ancient trees to try and stop yet another moterway or sub division..............the anti-fracters of South England..............Paul Watson & S Shepard crew..............just to mention a tiny tiny few...........I can see "the selfish and arrogant" perpective of it............but the alternative is so much worse..............yes its selfish of me to want to drink clean water from the rivers and springs........to watch the dolphins playing........and the majesty of great beasts like elephant and whale....to breath fresh air......to explore virgin ancient forest.............I shy from smog larden, congested crimmy lifeless cities.........he's perverted the word 'selfish' ...exploited it even .........In the north you have some remanients of a natural world because now dead people fought for it........trying to hold back the tide.........here in the south..well we were just late getting here.......I have travelled 3rd world hell cities...Manila comes to mind.....if we weren't selfish ...is that not how our whole world would be?....and perhaps will be......I see people fighting for a just cause as todays heros....people of "merit"......Assange...Manning....Snowden....Watson......of course they are selfish...but a selfish of great merit!....saints..avatars...budda's....altruism.....they are all myths......

.....hamma with all respect... could'nt the "A course in Miracles' preyer be said in just a few simple words.........if that's the word of truth its a really merky one............here's a poorly remembered quote 2500 years old by Gautam the (one of) budda.....'if you meet me on your path...cut me down with the "sword of truth'.'.......its so easy to be taken in by words and illusions....................

The...'unrecognizable collection of stories about judgement and dogma".....was really initiated and explioted by Constantinople in rewriting the bible.........where kingship was devine...the will of God...........god giving the king (gangster/bully) the right to enslave the masses and steel their wealth....apemind

.....anti-materialism is a nice idea if everbody does it..........like some of the native plains people ...where the chiefs tipi was also the poorest one........cause as you say Spine 'merit' the cheif was the most generous elder in the tribe...........or maybe that was just a romantic myth...........or maybe just practicle...who wants to carry a lot of shit around if your a hunter/gather...........personally I like my creature comforts ...my toys............like this thing that allows me to talk to the world...........and the wheeled thing...that allows me to travel and explore............my ancesters lived breif lives in damp...midge and flea infested hovels....in a frigid land with no pants....where shitting animals provided the central heating, theirs was the old religion...christianity came at the end of a sword........PASS..............

meritocracy '

I think its dated.......a nice idea............but so potentually vunable to human lust...............if all 7 billion of us make decissions equally.............then we are responsible for ourselfs.............and we will live with mistakes that WE MADE as a true collective.............when our tribes were small there were groups of us that lived by concenus.................now we have a tool in our hands where we can all meet and again live by concenus................a leader by any name is a Tyrant

and all tyrant's should be locked away for the good of humanity.............................

Edited March 3, 2015 by Dreamwalker.

[Optimystic]

I agree with your entire first paragraph... @ Dreamwalker.. I am anything but , anti-enviromentalist... I live in TX where the average joe is willing to sell out anything, except their own local food and water source... But I think Carlins humor has a way of pointing out how each proverbial side, whether right or wrong, can actually turn into an ideological religion and though it may appear to be the "better cause" we don't get anywhere really until we focus on getting on the same page, which starts with how we view and treat each other... cause that is the ultimate issue, the division and disparage llines drawn by old money... such a line we've helped to draw with ideology and sure, theres some hateful ppl out there who wouldn't think of bending their perspective for the sake of someone elses quality of life... at least until left behind and they are forced to go hide in the mountains or join the human race, but yeah thats dreaming I guess... eh

as far as the open prayer... I can't help but respect whatever that d00d wants to believe or project

but Im more of a realist in terms of what I attach my beliefs to.. but words are powerful and if ppl

wanna do good things with them thats fine... I don't understand posting that here except to demonstrate the

power ones words can have over ones hormones but Amen Ra! anyways

Democracy is what I think is dated... its the system of choice for the family dynasties, becasue in a democracy, family dominance is never challenged... they use their money to build their names and once they become deemed "Household American Names" they pretty much become untouchable... Im not against rich ppl... but I am against those who use their riches to create an unfair advantage for themselves and their cronies, and thats the issue that is not discussed in democracies until right after the crash, i.e. the monopoloy busting of the 1930's .... nowadays we have corporations in the usa which are bigger than MOST COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD in terms of net worth... Exxon has been giving grants to dictators in defenesless arab and african countries in exchange for first dibs on oil pipelines! They competed with our very own government to build their ties with poor nations who would sell sovereignity down the river, for a few million dollars.. hell who wouldn't

what you are saying about Meritocracy is EXACTLY what I see has happened to the combination of Democracy x Capitalism... its absolutely the most corruptible system , more of a blatant 'screw you' rather than the socialist version which is, i'll pretend I care about all your social problems, so long as I rule (from the perspective of the alleged leadership role) and then we'll blame you for your social disparage... But ultimately Dreamwalker, we have the same opinion of the power hungry... its their drug of choice.. I won't judge them for that, but everyone else who wants to reward them for that, should be judged... after all, their power wouldn't be possible without submission... or maybe our grandparents already gave enough of that eh

Meritocracy has many forms.. Some say the term was coined in the early 1900s in some book, but then you can go on are read about what Plato though of it.. Platos version was a little extreme, a world run by technocrats... I don't agree all the way with platonism, though I recognize he lived in much different times than we are in today... There is a newer version I've been recommended a looking into, coined for the obvious reasons, 'Neo Platonism'... but I admit I haven't really delved into it... im just your basic pantheist

I have no idea what the literacy rate was in Plato's day, but I have a feeling its much more than the average joe has been led on to believe... but personally I think a form of meritocracy will come about naturally... there is actually a Meritocracy Party that started over in UK.. im not sure how much traction they got but they've come up with a long list of ideas that they support, due to their circumstances of living under a monarchy.... it would be different here in the usa, but we have a similar problem which is often not addresed in the arena of family dynasties and monopolies.. I have nothing against the well deserving rich.. but I do have something against those who use their size and wealth to create an unfair advantage for themselves, at the expense of everyone else... they hide behind "Job creation" and "social issues" but what it comes down to, is equal opportunity means EVERYONE should have an opporunity to earn a seat at the round table... note I did not say it should be handed to them.. if they really cared so much about free markets, they would forfeit all of their "Patents" which supress the advancement of better more competitive technoligies... Hemp would be legal and alot of ppl would lose alot of money on Pfizer stocks... and there would be a host of alternatives to oil, and as well, there would be no such issue which we know today as "the petro dollar"...

But as I've said before

I am a dreamer

and btw I think our political values have EVERYTHING to do with spirituality, just as you might have guessed I think the same for humor and comedy... anything that inspires the human spirit, is spiritual... music, art, real politik.. even business when its pursued with a passion rather than lust... every THING is made of ATOMS, and Atoms are ENERGY, and ENERGY is a synonym of light... and thoughts are made of light, thats where it starts, in the imagination... and so I find it quite okay to be a dreamer ... even a block of Metal is 99.9% vibration... and so are we.... Our money is called "Currency" and that is because it was meant to flow in a "Current" aside the River'Bank'... just as the energy flows within us.... but when one greedy fish is able to climb to shore, and redivert all the flow to his own puddle, then I think its time for nature to rain on them...

i'll keep the rest of my political opinions for a political thread cause folks like to divide things up into all different topics eh the more complex the merrier... its like that separation of religion and politics thing... do they really expect me to believe that a christian politician, only follows christian culture on Sunday, but then puts that aside the rest of the week to make decisions which are best for everyone else???? I guess it's about using anything to keep us not focused on the almighty, all knowing, untouchable God of all men women and children in industrialized nations, with a force that even reaches across third world nations... the undisputed champion of power.. the God who answers to NO ONE, and yet is run by shadowy figures in dark rooms making decisions which we have now learned, can affect EVERYONE...

The market.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Spine Collector

[Bigred]

For a lot of people it might be hard to grasp but I have a assurance that god exists . I believe that I have a soul

and that all things have a living energy . To many people stereotype Christians thinking that we are a bunch of

idiots who follow blindly . That's like saying all Black people are niggers or all white people trailer trash . Its hard to really

go into detail without getting flamed by someone on this site . It is pretty easy to put down Christianity, i do it all the time.

But know one knows who god is or the ultimate truth is for that matter . There is to much to decipher we can speculate we

can theorise we can argue till we are blue in the face . But who does it help all this time wasted . The food for my soul is being

positive and helping others and to enjoy nature . I spent a lot of my adult life in a supermax prison ( like a lot of religious figures )

and witnessed this book change people . not into crazed Christians but into people understanding they have a soul and its in pain.

To see people evolve spiritually is amazing and to see it in myself gives me faith in humanity . Jail was never a deterrent for me

but being a decent person was and i would never have realised that if it was not for Christianity.

[Leaves]

Found this inspiring.....

 

 

[hamma]

.....hamma with all respect... could'nt the "A course in Miracles' preyer be said in just a few simple words.........if that's the word of truth its a really merky one............here's a poorly remembered quote 2500 years old by Gautam the (one of) budda.....'if you meet me on your path...cut me down with the "sword of truth'.'.......its so easy to be taken in by words and illusions....................

Ah Well with respect its not the length of a paryer that matters its that content., and to get out of illlusions

you must question there source.

I gave you the very first page of the book which sums up the course in the three sentences.

"That which is real cannot be threatened = Only what God creates is truly real, unassailable and eternal.

That what is unreal does not exsist. = What we create through preception of projection, is an illusion, and not there, but seems very real. "The Effects of Illusion are as powerful in their effects as is Truth".

Therein Lies the Peace of God"

The second quote I posted is the very last paryer in the book to take away with you,

and I think its Jesus giving the words so I throught I better not change them.

Edited August 21, 2013 by hamma

[Dreamwalker.]

thanks hamma .....I think your right in saying

'to get out of illlusions you must question there source.'...................thats an ageless truth................I love that line from the story of the fisher king........the holy grail.................the grail brings forth what ever you desire of it.................but the heart of the grail is not what it brings forth .....but the question!

thee question!.........................."whom does the grail serve?"

[Dreamwalker.]

..................its the wee hours of the morning again.................so I can't add much...........though really enjoying the conversations...................I had to look up...............

Pantheist | Define Pantheist at Dictionary.com

.

If I was awake I'd read more of that....I think Spine...........I find myself agreeing with you and I suspect I may also be a pantheist...............

Edited March 3, 2015 by Dreamwalker.

[Optimystic]

Cool lol

theres alot of forms , its a wide umbrella, a very diverse family

this is a nice read. I haven't even read it all but theres alot of insight about the diversity of pantheism here

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pantheism/

I think it encompasses everything from agnosticism to illuminsim... me, just call me, follower of the stone eh

theres beauty in and under every rock... including that huge slab of rock in your pics

but in pantheism, maybe not so much room for the offspring of zoroastrianism

[qualia]

get back to nature.

where are you now?

[whitewind]

I really can't be arsed by ordinary religion there's too much bullshit to wade through to get to the core truths. However it does seem to provide a framework and community spirit which is quite lacking in atheistic communities. Government provides an opportunity to provide the framework but doesn't seem to create the community spirit as it's not all-inclusive enough and is tied to capitalism which promotes individuality.

I think government is where it's at, we just need to change our economic structure and allow greater inclusivity in the community to make for a truly happy, non-destructive society. It's a big ask, but we should look at where we are headed and create a future not just let it happen randomly at the whim of capitalist tendencies. For the anti-government types, this is the only power that can stand up to capitalism and should be supported and improved if you want to see change you must do it yourself as part of the whole. You are part of the whole whether you like it or not.

Where spirituality comes in to play, is where we can find the truths and bring it to the whole.

[Dreamwalker.]

wow Bigred..............I wouldn't last 5 minutes in prison..............i'd turn into a puddle on the floor...........even being in tiny appartments for brief periods does my head in............and US max. security?..........if they are like the documentries they show on satilite tv..............the bustards really treat people like animals in there..............I can imagine how religion would be a healthy escape................but honestly I just wouldn't have a clue .......i just couldn't get my head around it...............human beings just shouldn't be treated that way...............the state should be setting a civilised example.....a higher standard.....compasion.....regardless of a person's crime.......(except for the jamie diamonds of the world...they should just be buried and forgotten)..the US has one of the highest incarseration rates in the world..hardly suprising with privatised corporate owned prisons..............the more they jail the more profit they make..................the pictures I've seen of our prisons, they look like motels in the countryside.............but sadly we are heading your way.................

TED talks are so cool...........................I have had those experiences "of looking down at my body and thinking wow what a weird thing' :- ).....................I can really relate to this women.......................