Help making a grow box for B. caapi & P. viridis

[3lliot]

So I'm gonna be growing B. caapi & P. viridis from seeds & cuttings. I've bought a big wooden chest (about 1m long x 50cm high x 50cm deep) and a 40W flouro grow lamp to go inside. I'm gonna line the sides with aluminium foil, and will probably make a nice perspex window for the top.

I'd like to keep it warm & humid inside, for the B. caapi especially.

Does anyone have any ideas for keeping it a controlled environment in terms of temperature & humidity, but still allowing enough air in? would I need a humidifier? or can I leave something in there to keep the humidity up, but just open the lid a couple of times a day to get some fresh air in there? or could I install a little fan to inject some air on a timer or something? or should I just leave the lid open a bit?

Also, will the P. viridis suffer being under under flouro light & in humidity all day? should I keep them somewhere else (indoors) & just keep the B. caapi in the grow box?

Any tips much appreciated.

-E

[planthelper]

So I'm gonna be growing B. caapi & P. viridis from seeds & cuttings. I've bought a big wooden chest (about 1m long x 50cm high x 50cm deep) and a 40W flouro grow lamp to go inside. I'm gonna line the sides with aluminium foil, and will probably make a nice perspex window for the top.

I'd like to keep it warm & humid inside, for the B. caapi especially.

Does anyone have any ideas for keeping it a controlled environment in terms of temperature & humidity, but still allowing enough air in? would I need a humidifier? or can I leave something in there to keep the humidity up, but just open the lid a couple of times a day to get some fresh air in there? or could I install a little fan to inject some air on a timer or something? or should I just leave the lid open a bit?

Also, will the P. viridis suffer being under under flouro light & in humidity all day? should I keep them somewhere else (indoors) & just keep the B. caapi in the grow box?

Any tips much appreciated.

-E

no, need to grow this plant, indoors, at your location.

maybe use artificial light to nurture cuttings and seedlings, but she will grow, well out doors for you. nobody would know what it is, so no need for secrecy.

[3lliot]

It still gets down to single figures at night here in the winter, plus I'm right at the beach, so we get a lot of salt flying about when it's windy. I don't have a garden (3rd-floor flat) so it's just easier for me to grow it indoors.

I have chillis on the balcony which are suffering from the cold & the salt, and I don't want to kill my caapi plants. maybe when they're bigger I could move them outside, but I want to get a lot of young plants on the go.

[3lliot]

Well anyway, what I've done is drill 5 quarter-inch holes in the side of the chest, & I've put a little pc fan on the inside next to the holes to pull some fresh air in, and left the top of the box open just a touch to let some air out.

I've also put 2 shallow dishes of water in there in front of the fan. I think the heat from the flouro is enough to evaporate some of the water, it feels nice & humid in there, and it's probably hovering around 30 degrees. I've got a hygrometer on the way from ebay so I'll be able to get a better idea next week.

While I've only got cuttings in there I think that'll be fine. I think I'll need more substantial ventilation when they get bigger though.

I've also made a little shaded section in there for the P. viridis, so it's getting the heat & humidity but less light.

ho hum

-E

Edited July 28, 2013 by 3lliot

[Justin Credible]

be careful with a wood box and high humidity, can cause problems. I would look at the trusty old panda film over tin foil, bout 10-20 coins per/m. If ya propagation box is going to be somewhere with heaps of air circulation you probs get away with lil breather holes, otherwise I would use a small pc fan at the bottom and breather holes on the top sides to push the air out

even if you stick ya plants outside a propagation room is always handy and fun to have.

Have you considered putting them in a mini hot house on ya balcony? I have old milk crates wrapped in clingwrap which work ok as mini hot house/humidity dome, they even fit on my heat pad

I don't have to deal with sea breezes where I am, so not sure if the clear Perspex can be used in front of the plants on the balcony to minimize the sea breeze.

[3lliot]

I've got a little perspex hot house for my chillis (trinidad scorpions) on the balcony, but it still gets really cold at night. there isn't enough volume for it to stay warm, especially with the breeze off the ocean. the chillis are pretty much dormant at the moment, they lost loads of leaves over the last 2 months. there's still some fruit growing but no flowers.

I think the box is running pretty nicely at the moment though. what sort of humidity is optimal for B. caapi? would about 60% be enough?

if the box starts to suffer from the humidity I'll seal the inside with something. it's god & solid though so it should be fine. I think it's oak or teak.

[Justler]

Your caapi will definitely out grow the box over the summer. By next year it will survive just fine on your balcony in single digit weather. I've had caapi growing in a pot outside under an awning this winter, and it hasn't gone dormant. Still growing (albeit slower than spring/summer), hasn't dropped any leaves, and no real sign of distress. They seem to handle our winters just fine when protected from frosts.

I'd recommend sourcing a Psychotria Nexus and growing that as opposed to Viridis. Requires a lot less work and attention to keep it happy, and looks just a nice. You wouldn't need a grow box for a nexus or cappi. However the Viridis will probably require a grow box to keep it happy half of the year.

[3lliot]

ok cheers. is there any difference in effect between viridis & nexus?

[upside]

I may be late with an idea,, but if you can, IME white acrylic paint instead of tin foil inside the box,, the light will be better reflected of the walls back onto your plants. Hope its going well.

[3lliot]

Foil is more reflective, afaik. the reason people recommend mylar or white paint instead is to prevent burning from hot spots, because it dissipates the light better. but I'm only using flouros anyway so it's not an issue.

Edited August 10, 2013 by 3lliot

[upside]

That's strange, as in the past I had 2 lil cupboards, one with foil and another with white paint, and when I put my head in each one,, I had to squint more from the light in the white interior cupboard. Does this not mean there is more light reflected and not lost with white interiors? Correct me if I'm wrong, it just seemed visually obvious. Maybe lumens are better reflected with tinfoil? Anyone

[Sallubrious]

Everything I read always indicated that white paint or mylar were better than foil. They say the dull side of the foil is more reflective than the shiny side too.

I've never done any tests with a meter so I couldn't be 100% certain though.

Truck windscreen reflectors make good improvised reflectors.

[3lliot]

some people recommend the dull side of foil because it's less reflective, again so it doesn't create hot spots & burn the plants. as in my previous post though, it's only really relevant for hot lights, like HPS.

"The reflectivity of bright aluminium foil is 88% while dull embossed foil is about 80%" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_foil)

Edited August 10, 2013 by 3lliot

[planthelper]

don't use alu foil unless you have to (like first time around).

use panda plastic instead, as everything needs to withstand, serious cleaning operations.

your probagation area needs, to support, "easy cleaning operations"

clean space without bug or pests, is paramount, alu foil can't be cleaned...

white surface is better than alu foil, in short.

aluminium is as well a small conductor, and you don't want this, if a current is around.

after all it's a wet space, and electricity and moisture don't mix either.

[Demonpigeon]

I hope this is a good place to ask.

I thought I might add B. Caapi and P. Viridis to my Salvia box seeing as they're all undercanopy plants that natively grow in the Oaxacan Cloud Forest (And I found some cheap P. Viridis leaves for cuttings ). I think the humidity, heat and light should be ok, but I have two questions:

1) What sort of pH do Caapi/Viridis need?

2) Does anywhere still stock B. Caapi seeds?

[Bush Turkey]

So I'm gonna be growing B. caapi & P. viridis from seeds & cuttings. I've bought a big wooden chest (about 1m long x 50cm high x 50cm deep) and a 40W flouro grow lamp to go inside. I'm gonna line the sides with aluminium foil, and will probably make a nice perspex window for the top.

I'd like to keep it warm & humid inside, for the B. caapi especially.

Does anyone have any ideas for keeping it a controlled environment in terms of temperature & humidity, but still allowing enough air in? would I need a humidifier? or can I leave something in there to keep the humidity up, but just open the lid a couple of times a day to get some fresh air in there? or could I install a little fan to inject some air on a timer or something? or should I just leave the lid open a bit?

Also, will the P. viridis suffer being under under flouro light & in humidity all day? should I keep them somewhere else (indoors) & just keep the B. caapi in the grow box?

Any tips much appreciated.

-E

40w is enough but more is better.

Use household CFL's at a colour temp of 6500k

3x28w CFL's work fine

EDIT. or an Aerogarden

Edited September 13, 2013 by Bush Turkey

[3lliot]

40w is enough but more is better.

Yeah I added some CFLs as well, they love it. I've got 10 plants in there now, I'll have to open it up soon & let them grow up the wall.

[Demonpigeon]

One other question I should have asked (I may now have found some seeds btw )

Does B. Caapi have distinct genders?

[nothinghead]

caapi is monoecious

[Demonpigeon]

caapi is monoecious

Awesome :-)

And I think I found the other answers, 5.5-6.5 pH for B. Caapi and I think P. Viridis is about the same :-) and spirit garden ethanobotanicals is aparently about to get seeds in :-)